hi peoples. my name is nick and it's good to meet everyone. i'm from hurstville, sydney and this is my first time posting. i'm going to give as much detail as i can so someone can help me. moderators: if this needs to be in a different section plz feel free to move it.

my query is as follows: my set-up consists of kenwood 6" splits for the front and 7" x 10" HQs for the rear, with a 4 channel 400w MTX Roadthunder amp powering all 4 speakers. i have no second amp or sub. anyway this is my concern: for the last couple of years i've been using a very old pioneer head unit for this set-up (it came with the car and my guess is it's about 5 years old, could even be a little more, it's very old). it was non-mp3 and i even had to split the 1 pre-out to use up the 4 channels.

i listen to a lot of trance/hard dance so i opted for the HQs because they deliver the punch that i wanted without the overbearing low-end vibrations of a sub. the head unit was the perfect supplement to the HQs and also the splits. it didn't have many options (a 3-band EQ at most), but it delivered a warm, crisp sound that could play at high volumes with no distortion. drum beats were clean and had a lot of chest-thudding impact, and breakdowns and build-ups sounded amazing. to me, it was the best unit.

anyway, i thought it was about time i bought a new head unit, so having faith in the pioneer brand, i bought a DEH-P5850MP. being pioneer, i assumed the quality would be the same if not better than my old unit, especially with all the features and especially with making use of the dual-preout. all i can say is, it sounds disgusting. the sound is weak and trebly, drum beats distort at low levels. i've tried all manner of EQing, compression/reverb effects, changing Q factors and changing the amp levels, and i can't get it to sound like my old unit. overall, it just sounds messy and cheap. i would take a refund anytime, but i doubt the store i bought it from will give it to me.

i don't know much about car audio, i just go by what it says in the manuals, but is there something i'm not doing, or have pioneer just gotten a little rusty in their old age?

i had that same problem when i went from a boss head unit to a alpine head unit , although i think everyone will agree that boss and alpine are at opposite ends of the scale compared to your 2 head units.
I thought the alpine was weak and trebly and infact it appeared i could go louder with the boss hu without distortion.In the end i think my ears were playing tricks on me because the trebly parts was infact more detail to the music and i just need to sort the bass to +1/treble 0, and it became a kool combo,also some gain adjustment. BTW the boss hu was on 8treble and 4bass and it was rich in a dynamic way but SQ was terrible.........cors

Personally I think the quality of Pioneer has gone downhill a little over the last 4 or 5 years.

I can't see how a manufacturer can make a decent CD deck that can be sold retail for less than about $150 without skimping on something somewhere.

Maybe have a look at Eclipse or Alpine

i paid $320 for it. anyone want to buy a virtually brand new DEH-P5850MP?

very disappointed mr. pioneer!

Can't you put your old one back in?

Why did you change if you were so happy with the old one?

i can and will put the old one back in. i changed because i wanted to play mp3s, and i thought the sound quality would be the same or better in the new one.

I prevously bought the Pioneer DEH-P9650MP, and it was far superior to my old Pioneer DEX-P88R.

I think Pioneer head units basic SQ has improved over the last 10 years, whereas my old unit was warm and soft, the new one was light and articulate.

I find it takes a couple of weeks for ears to 'learn' the sound of the new deck before putting it out to pasture.

and overall cleaner sound will seem quieter, when it is really louder, just not distorted as much.

Pulse-R

i agree with you there, but the quality here is so bad that it's not a matter of getting used to it. as my mate said, it sounds like AM radio. i wrote into pioneer in my last desperate attempt to do something about it before i list it on ebay.

If it truely sounds like AM radio, it's either faulty or your wiring is messed up. They don't sound anything like AM when installed and working properly.


I've found with older models a flat EQ sounds OK, but with the newer models flat sounds terrible and you need to EQ it to get it to sound normal. I haven't noticed any lack of sound quality once EQ is set correctly.

the basic 3-band eq is set correctly

bass +6
mid +2
treb +3

this setting worked wonders on the old deck. the bass is on max to maximise bass (since no sub) and the punch i used to get from the speakers on this setting was heaps good (hard low-end drum sounds with minimal vibration).

ouch , set everything on 0....cors
EDIT#what does it sound like all on 0?#

set on max like that WILL cause the output to distort, even with the amp gains set to minimum.

I'd suggest, if you really want the heavier bass, to se the bass on 0, mid -4 and treble -3...

then you can safely turn up the gains on the amps to optimise the volume of the system.

Just because you set the EQ to 6, 2, and 3 on the old one doesn't mean this one will be the same. Also, do you have the high pass filters on or off?

What are you referring to when you say "minimal vibration"?

thanks for the advice.

with bass on +6, it's weak as it is. if i put it on 0, drums become unlistenable (sounds more like a tap than a drum, even with higher amp gains).

by "minimal vibration" i mean't the wooden parcel tray in the rear and surrounding materials of the boot hardley vibrate, so you get a clean sound. that's why i try and steer from subs and have HQs instead. less low-end sure, but way more punch and hardley any vib, and this sort of thing is perfect for hard trance.

the thing is, it doesn't sound like it's a problem with the settings. it sounds as though the deck just hasn't got the foundations to produce good sound, regardless of the settings. if you heard it you'd know what i mean. i've tried all manner of EQing and although you can get better sound through adjustments, it doesn't match the old deck.

before i got this unit, i would alternate between using my old pioneer deck and a creative mp3 player connected to the amp (just depending on whether or not i wanted to play a cd or mp3). i hooked it up this morning to compare it to this new deck, and the difference is really unbelievable, and creative don't even do car audio.

so i think my conclusion is that it has nothing to do with settings or anything like that. it's just the way this new head unit is built, and it just so happens that the type of sound it produces doesn't match my expectation of what good SQ should be.

What was your old model head unit?

http://img.mercadolivre.com.br/jm/img?s=ML...963.jpg&v=P

it's the DEH-P2050, and my mp3 player's an older model Creative Zen

both units have unsurpassed sound quality

i reakon you have a problem then,,,, go to the shop and audition the difference between the hu and your mp3 player.Surely then the manager will know u know what your talking about.

Another thing is to search the members forum for someone in NSW and pm them, ask for assistance , or at the very least to reassure you that its not the settings.I found pioneer hard to work with when menu looking whenever i used both my mates pioneer.Also also make sure u have a full knowledge of the manual .........cors

i've been thinking about doing that actually. it's definitely my best option at this stage. although even if i do prove to the manager the difference in quality, i can imagine him squirming his way out of helping me. he seems like that type of person. anyway there's something small on the creative that needs fixing, once that's done, i might give your suggestion a shot. cheers.

oh and stone, i'll check the hi-pass. i think it might be turned off, but i'll check again anyway to be sure. cheers.

That model and new ones shouldn't sound much different via RCA. Electronically, they haven't really changed that much over the past few years.

that's what i thought. i'll have to do what zion said. go into the shop, let them hear the mp3 player and ask them if they can adjust the settings of the hu so the sound quality matches it.

personally i think they've (pioneer) in general have become better overall, and offer a fuller range of items from base model el-cheapo stuff, right upto there new sq gear.

you could press the button to restore it back to factory settings and start again.......cors

But their service contractors in WA are still as bad as ever... Who wants to wait 6 weeks to get a repair done?

I have sent Alpine repairs off on a Monday and got them back on a Wed when I sent it overnight by mistake The scary thing is that that repair went to Melbourne and back in that time too!
(When was the last time you saw a Pioneer repair back within a week Brent?)

The construction of Pioneer's base model stuff still leaves a bit to be desired too, and I have never seen so many decks with faulty earth track fuses before last years range, I see lots of customers who have had their gear installed "down the road" at other stores coming in and asking us how to fix their engine noise problems... it is almost a joke amongst our staff now and we put bets on the person having a Pioneer deck!

Don't get me wrong, Pioneer make some great stuff but their decks in particular are getting cheaper and cheaper in their build quality every year IMO.

Send it direct to Melbourne then

But the guys in their service department are clowns, I bet they spend the day playing practical jokes on each other, rather than doing repairs

I once sent a Pioneer screen off for repair and it was gone for 2.5 months. When it finally came back we called the customer and told them it was ready, booked them in and refitted it. Turns out that it never got actually got touched, someone just spotted it there and thought that it must be ready to go and sent it back to us!

There are some good guys there who do what they can to get it sorted as quickly as possible though and sometimes they need that one obscure part that has to come from overseas and the time delay is a little bit out of their contol.

Alpine do usually tend to be pretty quick though.

You didn't send it to Melbourne then, did you? It wouldn't sit in Melbourne that long unless, as you said, it needed a rare part.

Pioneers are great units. either yours is faulty or you dont know how to adjust it, and have some setting messed up.The fact you had everything at +3 or highers worrys me when you complain about SQ. No unit can sound good like this IMO

Pioneer in melb are awesome in how quick they turn stuff round...had my unit serviced and back next day. Alpine are also awesome too.
peace
Cyberpunky