all the classes that have 1-2 or 3-4 woofers
these arent separted into the normal cone area divisions of street class? (A, B, C)

so for example would 1x 10" have to compete against 2x 18s??
hardly seems fair??

its my understanding that having a 2nd battery will bump you up from a street class to either street max or super street and i dont think i want to compete against people with possibly twice the cone area or more..

Yes that is right 1x 10 againest 2x 18
But if you have 1x 18, 2x 15, 4x 12, 6x 10, and a 2nd battery and below window height then you can run ST C

Then build to suit the rules

Like Wazza said, you can run StC so long as your install isn't over window line.

It would be silly to enter a dB Drag comp using 1 10" sub and have a 2nd battery.

unless you could pull 155+
hahahaha

was just using the 10" as an example...
i dont see why a 2nd battery would be silly in any db drag car? power source closer to the amps plus the extra power in reserve for burps is a good enough reason, no?

so can you run 2nd battery in st A/B as well or only C? with the other requirements met...

1 x 10" vs me!

St A and B can only have a battery in teh factory position under the hood.

St C allows for a 2nd battery behind the B pillar

From DB Drag Rules:


6-7i Competitors in the Street A and Street B classes are limited to 1 battery. Competitors in the Street C class are limited to 2 batteries.

Additional Guidelines:

· Aftermarket batteries are acceptable.
· Batteries must be of the 12-volt variety.
· Hybrid (ie 12/16 volt) and/or custom-made batteries are prohibited.
· The physical size of each battery is limited to 800 cubic inches (13110 cubic cm) or less. (Height x Length x Width. Excluding the battery terminals.) The physical shape of the battery is irrelevant.
· The primary battery must be located in the same general area as the OEM battery location. (For example, if the OEM battery location is under the hood, the primary battery must be located under the hood as well. Aftermarket battery trays and/or custom fabricated battery brackets may be installed provided no other applicable rules are violated.)
· The secondary battery (if installed) may be mounted behind the B-Pillars or under the hood provided no other applicable rules are violated.
· Batteries may not be mounted underneath the vehicle. (Underbody battery boxes, racks, etc. are prohibited.)
· Batteries may not be swapped out during the course of an event.

bugger...ah well....
cheers for the info fellas

Because it puts you into higher classes

Example, If you have 2 12s (most common set up among street beaters) and a 2nd battery, say hello Street Max 3-4 or Super Street 1-2 No Wall where you will be up against competitors with up to 4 18s and 8 amps in walled set ups, or in SS1-2NW guys with up to 2 18s, unlimited amps and multiple batteries.

Indeed it is a good reason, though not everyone wants/can afford/will put in a second battery as close to the amp as possible, and therefore if it was allowed in any comp they would feel a bit robbed if they lost to someone with a second battery. Mainly because the second battery will feed the amp a higher less resisted current, meaning that the amps can output a higher power to run the subs on each burp.

I guess if you're going to half do it, you're forced to do it all or not do it at all

i feel its the same issue the other way around... just because i have a 2nd battery why do i have to go against larger cone areas?
i dont mind being in a higher class as long as its fair for all...
And yes, i know...rules are rules. But i dont see the logic of this one...

Maybe if someone could explain the reason why only street classes are split appropriately so no one has such a massive advantage over the next person. and Why the other classes do not?
Why does St C allow 2nd battery but none of the other street classes allow it?

IMO rules should be consistent and rules should be made to be fair for all.

Like most people, i have a budget on what i want to spend on car audio. And like most people my stereo is what i will listen to daily and be enterd into comps whenever one pops up. 2-3 comps in a year (for perth anyway) hardly justifies spending more money on more equipment, just to get onto equal ground with the dedicated db draggers

not many people want or need 4x 18s for daily music...

If people dont want to spend money on the extra battery and in turn do not want to compete against people with extra batteries thats fine..makes perfect sense
BUT
why should someone with a 2nd battery have to compete against people with more subs/cone area?

a battery and install costs in mosts cases is a hell of lot cheaper than extra sub(s), extra amp(s) and associated install costs...

ideally anyone should be able to rock up to a comp, enter with what they have and be grouped with similar systems in the interest of fairness.

if i had 2x18s and won against someone with a single 10 i'd hardly be proud of my win...

whyn not? these ppl build to the rules.

like say SM 1-2 you are allowed 2 subs of any size..you arent gunna set up 2 10s are ya, you want to go with the biggest cone area you can, so you go 2 18s...

build to the rules if you want a dedicated spl machine. if you just have a streeter, and wanna chuck it in a comp to see how it goes, dont whinge....

Here here. Well said.

On a local level (your area), 1 10 in SM3-4 or SS1-2NW may be enough to win, it all depends on what level you want to be competitive at.

You can't complain about the rules being unfair just because your set up or proposed setup doesn't give you the best chance of winning the class it puts you in.

You would gain more from adding a 2nd sub and amp that you would from adding a 2nd battery.

If you want to WIN build to WIN, pretty simple really.

pick a class to run in and build your car to compete in that class.

ive done the St B run since April last year with gear i bought straight off the store showroom floor, and dropped it all in my car.

so this year im building a designated St A car rather then buying as box with a woofer in it and chucking it (slowly) into the boot.

Because those looking to enter SM and above generally choose to build to suit the class, where as the StA.B and C classes accomodate for the average Joe looking to enter with his street beater.

You don't see too many walled daily drivers getting around do you?

(brad be quiet )

Why cant i be a streeter with system that would be competitve in a fair class? ie if they had SS A,B,C, SM A,B,C etc etc
you clearly missed the point of my post. and gave the exact response i expected. Quit hiding behind the rule book and open your mind to an open discussion on fair competitions.
i build my system for me... why should i be grouped with dedicated db
draggers when they have a huge advantage over me, but i only have a small advantage over the rest of the streeters...
dont take this the wrong way!! i encourage anyone to put in their 2c on the matter. Tell me why these rules are fair for the competitors. because IMO it isnt...or why a 10" should ever be in the same class as 2x 18s?
Laws are the strictest form of a rule. but when that law is no longer fair to the majority of people it can be changed.

so why piss and moan about it???

you think its a smart idea to have 800 million classes?? do you thnk yoiu are the first person to have a whinge bout the classes? no.

but obviously, dbdrag has got it right, if these classes work WORLDWIDE...

Here's a thought...........go post this topic over on Termpro, see what kinda response you get.

I'm not hiding behind anything, I know that the chances of getting a basic rule to change is next to impossible, so good luck convincing Wayne Harris to re format dB Drag Racing.

If you are so concerned about fairness, you have a few options.

Build a car to suit the dB Drag Racing Rules.

Don't run a 2nd battery and run StA.

Create your own organisation with as many classes as possible.

Don't compete.

Heres another point that is very valid in Oz, we don't have enough competitors to fill the 13 classes we have already, you proposal would see us with an extra 4 classes, not allowing for if you want to do Super Street and Extreme A, B C classes, which would see 52 classes.

any one who enters a car with a second battery is going to be serious about db drag racing i dont see a street beater running 2 batteries and thats why they have street classes for the guy on the street who wants to run his car and as it is its hard enuff to fill the classes they have now y add more maybe if the classes were full and there was a group of cars that came under a new class rule then maybe but untill numbers justify a new class its a waste of time debating the thought plus who in their right mind would run a single sub less than 12 inches even for a street beater

thats just my thought

if you have to run your 2nd battery go in autobarn comps they are very easy on the rules as i had my box on the front seat and they still let me in street b. but i agree with everyone else rules are rules design your system to the rules and all is sweet.

Roo

here is what happened to me. i went to compak attak last year and on the entry form they only said what size subs and how many do you have. now in my system then i had 2 batteries, external operation of head unit and 1 amp. so i thought yeah street B. now i get down there and the guys from doran said that sorry but you cant compete in street B. i said why? they said under the rules of 2nd battery and external operation they have to put me in super road 1-2. but to my advantage there was not one other car in my class so i was against myself.

also when i do come to the bigger events i will be up against guys like blackice. now i know right now that i have no chance in hell of beating him with clarion gear and even if i had DD or soundstream or something like that i still know that he would blow me out of the water cause he knows what he has to do with his system to beat anyone he wants.

thats my 2c

What is your point regarding compak attack, that getting bumped can help you to win or that a rule book needs to be attached to every entry form..

Blackice isn't competing at the moment and there is nothing to say that you couldn't beat him, we had never built a walled car before we did the Civic, if you are determined enough to do the reasearch and work required, you can achieve alot.

thats was the only thing in my mind that gives a valid reason for why it is the way it is...
not enough competitors.

but on the other hand, would opening up a few extra classes encourage more competitors out of the woodworks? people like me who are in limbo land halfway in between classes...

the reason i want an extra battery is not purely for spl purposes, it is more of a safety net for my amps. everyone knows big voltage drops can damage equipment. If you can afford an extra battery why wouldnt you want to do it?
same reason i wouldnt have a turbo car without an intercooler... It's called protecting your investment.

big power amps are quite cheap nowadays and big amps draw big power. with more and more people with high power systems you would think quite a few would be considering a 2nd battery.
i know it wont change a thing and you all seem to think im whinging to try to get the rules changed just for me...im not.

I want to see what you think, Do you think its fair in its current format?
cos the only responses so far have been mostly 'If you dont like it F.. off'

seems like the generic response whenever someone questions the rules..

imagine a perfect world. everyone has a pumpin car stereo , lots of people compete. there is more than enough competitors to fill 50-odd classes. wouldnt that be where we want the car audio scene to be?? lots of people involved, lots of competitors, more classes...

wuold u agree or disagree and why?
maybe add your ideas or suggestions on what else you see wrong with the current format. or how it could be improved.

here is another idea, maybe in these woofer variable classes add some sort of handicap scoring? eg 10" vs 18" ,add 3db to the score from the 10" so it might have a chance being competitive against the 18"

once again....im aiming to have a discussion on the topic, i would love for the rule to change but it wont happen and im well aware of it.

you do have point but by added a 2nd battery to streets, i don't think that by allowing a extra battery it wil fill up the all the classes. I have a 3000rms amp and i have a crap battery i got for $80 it runs it fine and i havent had a problem. if your battery budget is big just get a big battery like the 2150 from odysey that probaly more powerful then the two batteries you got now. its like any sport they are the rules of the game. if you were in a soccer match and could only kick with one foot do you complain because others can use both feet and see if you can change the rules to use you hands? no.

as i suggest sell both batteries and get a big one. what batteries you got now?

personally i think the class are set out perfect, street class are pretty much for anyone and you can get good comp against the locals in your area. then they are the advance class for car designed to get loud.

i run my car daily, driving around with heaps of bass whip up to a comp only thing i do is load my amp down and burp it. there is no reason why you cant too.

roo

i had pretty much come up with that conclusion myself, as i want to compete, and compete fairly.

i will be looking into available options, i have an odyssey 1200 and was goin to get an optima off a mate cheap but now to stay within the rules i was looking at either the odyssey 2150 or the biggest that will fit...

in regards to your soccer comparison i feel its more like this.
Say you play Men's C grade and pretty much run circles around the competition, get league MVP etc
so you are told to go up a grade but there is not enough people to make a B grade competition so you jump straight into the A-league, playing with the pros and there you have the skills to be a great benchwarmer.

Stop your whinging about adding a 2nd battery.
As michael has already stated we don't get enough competitors at our events in Aust to fill all classes now. With your proposal of new classes I highly doubt we would get those ones filled aswell. Which inturn leaves the organiser out of pocket

EI: Trophies (especially if they are Plaqued)

DB Drag is world wide recognised. The rules are fine they way they are. They have to be setup and written to be fair and suit the Majority of comptitors.

My suggestion to you is to download the rules, then read them thoroughly. Then read them again. Build your car to suit your chosen class.

is there a retarded echo in here???

how many people need to post the same thing??


i totally agree'd with michael there.
Read my posts. IF* there was enough competitors then wouldn't it make sense to have extra classes so people arent disadvantaged in any way?
(*extra emphasis on the word IF, as in HYPOTHETICALLY speaking)

Re-read it now. I AM building to suit the rules.

simple suggestion... dont compete in Dbdrag if you dont like the rules,

Go to your local autobarn show and run st A with your 1 x 10" and as many batteries as you want. At least you will only be up against 2 x 10's there.

I've ran 1 x 10" b4 at the local shows, and i have won also. (twice i think)

If you get serious enough into Db Drag dont worry about what woofers to use for a class, worry about what car to use, then think about everything else. That is what the serious competitors do.

does anyone even read my posts?

I AM BUILDING TO SUIT THE RULES!

IM NOT RUNNING A 10" IT WAS USED AS AN EXAMPLE TO HIGHLIGHT THE UNFAIRNESS OF CERTAIN CLASSES

autobarn in WA are a mechanical workshop only. they have nothing to do with car audio here.
there are 2 sanctioned DB drags in perth this year...one is already gone.
2 events are hardly worth getting serious about....
20-50 bux is chump change when you consider any competitive system is worth id say a minimum of 2 grand and most will be a fair bit higher.

Ok, lets speak hypothectically here for a second, you want a format that "people arent disadvantaged in any way" well...... we better include a sedan class and wait, how about a commodore/ford class, maybe even a class for soft top cars too, don't forget to create a panda/crx class too.

See where I'm going?

This is what would happen if you open it up too much as far as rules etc go, every second person would be "oh but wait he has a hatchback, thats not fair.....sook sook sook"

There is a saying "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"

The current format is fine, yes there are areas that cause regular concern for competitors and judges alike, but overall, there is nothing majorly wrong with dB Drag Racings classes or rules.

yes i dont see why not? hypothetically there will be numbers to fill those classes too.

how about "if its perfect no one would complain.."

Areas that cause concern are the ones im talking about. we should be discussing how to improve on those areas.

Anyway, i can see this is going nowhere so lets just leave it at that.
its not *fair* when u all gang up on noob like me....

Lets see......ST, SM, SS, SSNW, EX, SEDAN, COMMODORE/FALCON, SOFT TOP, PANDA/CRX, then A, B and C for each of these, thats what, 27 classes.

You pay for 1st and 2nd place trophies for all 27 classes.

You find a location big enough to hold firstly all the competitors cars, as in the mind of dB Drag Racing, "full classes" would mean a minimum of 8 competitors, so 8 x 27 = 218 competitors, then the parking for spectators, event staff etc, you might as well organise an event like Autosalon.

It would have to be a 2 day event also.

Can See why not yet?

How about making sure that the location not only fits 218 competitor cars, but allows for them to move around spectators safely so that you dont end up with a lawsuit on your hands.

Making sure that there is enough 240v power available to run all the crap that competitors bring to dB Drag events.



How about, "perfection is unattainable" because there will always be someone like yourself to find something to complain about.

Areas that cause concern are the ones im talking about. we should be discussing how to improve on those areas.

The areas aren't regarding classes and don't really have any impact on the format, which is what you have a problem with.



Thats right, because it was never going to and we aren't ganging up on you, we are calling it like we see it and as it is in the real world, not some fairy tale.

It would seem that you have just decided....mmm... the format is unfair and although I haven't done any research. I might start a discussion to see what others think.