Hi guys,

Just researching a sub of say 10" with pref dual 4 ohm that will go in a box around 0.65cuft.

The reason being is I'm looking at a sub to go behind the passenger seat of the vz.

Anyone have any experience with this? I notice of of the members here uses a Cerwin vega 10".

Will be usiing a M605 monobloc to drive it.

So far the list is a Focal 27V2 or a Hertz HX250D. Would like the Mille but i'm guessing magnet size is prohibitive.

-Clint

We have found the Eclipse SW4000 10 inch subs work VERY well in the boxes we make to go behind the seats of a VZ ute.

If you want something with a 2 ohm load for your amp work out how much space you can afford to give up.

Ultimatly something like an Alpine Type R 10 would be great but you would want to make sure you have a short passenger

I haven't hear one, but the Pioneer 10" Shallow sub is very shallow, and 0.65 would be good size box.

^ thats me with the cerwin. If you want hard hitting bass that sounds great SQ wise the cerwin vega V-max 10 is great. However if your after pure SQ and don't want it too loud I would recommend the rainbow vanadium 10. thats what i'll be upgrading to in the future, although i'll be going 2 of them.
Try and get the custom box made first then go around to a store that has a few of the subs you are thinking of and ask if you can try them in the ute before you buy.

Regards

Antony

ill be running the Qmax 6.5in subs in my ute, 6 of them too...
alot less room in my lux than the commo

I have a box in mind. Rainbow and Cerwin are definately within spec.
As far as sub bass is concerned i'm after SQ but with some ability to really get things moving with some drum and bass or deep r&b tones.

It not really a case of high output since its not exactly a large space in the cabin. Will be auditioning shortly..need to track down some other ute installs.

Problem is that it is only a 4 ohm load on the amp.

Maybe a Rockford P2 or P3 would be a good option

The test list thus far
Hertz HX250D
Focal 27V2
Rock Fos P3
Cerwin V-Max
Rainbow Van
IDQ

Looking good thanks guys..

First four shouldn't be a prob for a demo.

i just bought 2 of the rockford p2 8inch subs for my door there 200wrms not bad for a 8 inch

Bear in mind mate that the SW4000 Eclipse is only a single 4ohm woofer, you would need 2 of them (1 behind each seat perhaps) to get the most out of the amp, but that would be pretty damn good for sub bass in a ute!

I'm after a similar thing - 10" for a tight space...
what the rough price of the Cerwin and the Rainbow?
Cheers, Alex.

I'd be inclined to use some IDQ 8's personally.

Im with hoods, but an IDQ 10". I had one in my VU ute in a 1cube box. Great sounding sub and IMO better than the IDMAX in sq...not output

Cerwin will be cheaper than the rainbow vanadium. about 3/4 of the price.

ID8's or Focal 21V2.

I have a 21WX Utopia BE on the way to me for my BA ute.. although I have room for the 30 litre box requirement.

the 21V2 is similar sounding, requires 10-20 litres,

The ID8's should be good, slightly more output than the focal, but will be more "subwoofer" sounding.. IE: less sq.

the ID8's only need 8-16 litre boxes.

for SQ in a ute, properly executed a 8" should be plenty,
I would still go dual 8" subs over single 10" myself in limited space,
you can use a larger box to achieve better linearity with a smaller box,
so you will achieve better SQ.

it's all very well to choose a sub thats supposed to achieve good SQ, but if you cram it into it's tinyest enclosure, it's going to be peaky sounding, and lack musicality.

I agree with Hispl, the Eclipse SW4000 is a nice sub at it's price point, and go well in tiny boxes.
I wouldn't call them SQ subs however, and they tend to not reach too deep.

I guess what you need to decide with yourself is, what is subjective SQ for you?

do you need strong bass response, or do you just want to fill out the sound evenly?
do you want a big bass hit, or do you want nice smooth linear bass?

Juls

Juls, I think a lot of people are fooled into thinking SQ needs to have very subtle bass that can't be felt.

I would like to think that in a good SQ system that the woofer sends shivers down my spine, just like I was sitting a few feet away from the bass drums.

You can allways turn something down, you can't push something past it's capability

I'm thinking of SQ of terms of still wanting to feel the bass.
Not boomy or fatiguing.. I haven't checked out the freq response chart on the mille splits but I'm thinking of filling the gaps here.

Definately sealed over ported for the enclosure. I think a linear bass response would be nice.

Ported in that sort of space would be a real effort anyway!

I think a lot of people get it VERY wrong as far as sealed compared to ported enclosures go, most sealed enclosures cannot account for cabin gain and be tuned with the same degree of control as what a ported enclosure can, above the tuning frequency of a ported enclosure a woofer actually is more controlled than in a sealed enclosure, you just need a woofer with a strong mechanical suspension and motor structure to work well in most ported enclosures, funnily enough these are the same attributes that make a woofer a good woofer for SQ too...

After doing a bit of history research..seems the IDQs have a reputation for excellent sound in small enclosure..Added to the list.

I can vouch for the 27V2's sounding great in small box's and going hard with plenty of punch. If I had a ute they would be the Sub of choice for me. Very musical sub and great for daily listening - very forgiving of source material.

ill throw in a vote for the idq's. they work well in shallow enclosures and are nice and punchy and tight whilst providing a good kick. sounds like wat ur after

Definatly I'd be leaning the image Dynamics route for tiny box SQ,
very close behind for a focal, V2 in your pricerange.

I'm with HISPL yes a good amount of bass is excellent for day to day listening,
You don't need 4 15" subwoofers to do it however, it's surprising the impact that can be achieved by
one small subwoofer properly setup with good power behind it.

but then heres me a semi sq fanatic and backyard system builder telling a Alberts main salesperson whats what... Car audio is a really personal thing and I can really appreciate that, which is why I always try to get from people what it is that they expect from there sound before making reccomendations.

if someone asks for SQ subwoofer, I'll assume they want 1. Detail, 2. No distortion, 3. Linearity, 4. Solid impact with Good output. but thats just my take. Most good subs can be built into a reasonable enclosure to achieve these things, but not as well as a subwoofer thats designed for that purpose in the first place.

For me a SQ subwoofer setup must offer, excellent depth 30hz and below, it must be articulate, Extremely Fast, show very good bass detail and follow transient bass notes flawlessly, Bass Tonality must be realistic and linear, but also be enough that there is impact, The largest part of any SQ Bass system is the quality, strength and impact of the midbass followed by a seemless sub bass setup. There must be little or no distortion or farting/coughing sounds. Which almost all but a few subwoofer systems suffer.

but then.. I'm pedantic..

Juls

Sounds to me like our defination of SQ bass is the same
Great comments..

I take it cutting the rear firewall out is not an option? Its perfectly legal in WA and not an expensive excercise..

There was once a time when that was my plan, but it involved 6 x 10"s But after driving a VE .. the VZ feels so dated.

If thats not an option, Another vote for the IDQ in a small box.

Cutting out the firewall is my #1 option, however some people chicken out as it impinges on the resale value of their vehicle.

Personally I don't think an IDQ has enough balls in a small box, or any box for that matter, the cone is poorly controled and the woofer doesn't handle enough power IMO especially for the price!

Trits, I think the HX250D would suit your requirement nicely as it does only require a very very small enclosure and in a well build enclosure will thump very hard when asked to as long as it is getting the power it needs.

I think the IDQ are also an excellent choice to be seriously considered

Don't forget also that an MRD-M605 will still put out 400wrms @ 4 ohms (14.4v)

Still plenty of power to run in an SQ set up

After some research the 27KX is looking like a winner.
Going a custom enclosure mind you so now the specs have changed completely.

We'll see what the Hertz HX offers next week when I hear it.

27K2?

KX or V2....

ill put a vote in for the IDQ love that sub!

My bad..edited..
Its the KX

27KX is a good choice,

Just make sure you have room for around 40 litre enclosure,

I've run them in 20 litre enclosures, they are nice, but battle below 40hz, with 30-40 litres you'll reach 30hz and below no probs.

The other thing is, make sure you have plenty of power, I found they sounded best with around 800W available, I also found they didn't sound great on cheap amps and most D class amps, these subs tend to show up the weaknesses in amplifiers, since there output has almost no distortion at all, any distortion from the amplifier can often be heard, especially in a ute environment.

Juls

Thanks for the info Juls..

Power is an issue. Being single 4 ohm I can only give it around 400wrms from the M605.

I'm most interested in the output. I don't want over the top but still a decent kick. Tomorrow might be able to answer that for me.

Hey what about one of these... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/shop/product...;products_id=32
I'm ordering one in the next couple weeks only problem is you have to ship them surface which takes 4-6 weeks otherwise you pay $380 USD for postage alone, but surface mail it's $100 USD so it ends up being a total sub+post of $280 aussie. Everyone who has used one raves about them having the SQ of Lotus, IDMAX etc.. with almost the the output of the IDMAX. The best part it only needs a 1/2 cuft net box for best performance.

Luke

Interesting. Looks very similar in design to the KX.

Yeah it is, it's actually built by TC sounds these guys---> http://www.tcsounds.com/
But to Npdang's design (the owner of the diy audio site/forums).

I own TC sounds built sub, very high build quality, just an FYI

If you go with the focal,
remember they need a solid amount of break in time,

don't expect performance from them immediatly, the first hour or two you'll find the sub hopeless,

it's not until about 6-10 hours use it starts to get cranking, after 20-30 hours, then those subs really really sing and go hard.

I learnt the hard way with my first 27kx, thinking it was faulty from day one, all it was, was it just needed to broken in so much more, just be careful with it for the first 2-3 hours, because it can over excurt easily, after 10-20 hours you won't have any issues anymore, output will be very good, and impact is excellent with those subs, without having overbearing bass. They have a Very Very Solid Hit behind them, very quick and accurate, low distortion subwoofer once it's broken in.

Just give it the 20-30 hours of love it deserves before making judgements if you like it or not.
you can push it hard over that time, just be careful in the first 10 hours, as the output will be lower and overexcursion is easy to achieve in that period of time. Once things settle in, then the depth, impact and output will all be there.

These are precision hand make subwoofers, that are designed to last a long long time, hence they need such a long breakin period. You don't have to do anything special to break it in, just be careful initially.

Juls

Decided to up the ante and go with a Focal Utopia 21WX

Thanks for everyone's advice!

Utopia is in. My god this thing sounds good! The bass is just seamless and blends in prefectly every time. I can throw any style of music at it and it never disappoints. Not the biggest output in the world, but no doof doof or laggy bass..just fast punchy and hard hitting.

Very impressed.

congrats on the setup, now don't let the audio bug bit you

hertz HX250D