I see alot of ppl with Pioner 306C subs and other cheaper subs getting 130/140db+ ... and really thought my 2x 15" PCW soundstreams in my 95 Festiva would absolutely crap on the Pioneers (My mate has one with 500wrms going through it)

Is there a rough estimate of what my subs would do in a Festiva, properly installed with the right sealed boxes, and a nice monoblock pushing the correct 400wrms to each... or could I just put more wattage to them temporarily for soundoffs to achieve a higher spl?

I still have alot of reading on SPL, but I just thought I'd get a general idea about my specific combo and w hat I can do it get it really cranking.

It's usually safe to push much more power through a sub for short bursts.
My old 150W Pioneers (pair of 10") do over 140 with 400RMS each.

I'm planning to run 2kW soon - to see how far I can push them. (hope to get 146+)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHzS2fWuP1A

There's an idea about a few 306c's by a member here.

Man honestly how long is a piece of string? But taking a stab at it, in a sealed box as you said I would guess maybe a 134-137 could be more or could be less. Ideally what you would want to do is build some ported enclosures with perhaps an interchangeable port for every day AND db use. That way if you want to go to an SPL comp then just whack in the SPL port and away you go and it's just as easy to convert back to street use.

On that note - Sealed boxes typically produce better sound quality (as they play music well down to the bottom frequencies - whereas the ported enclosure doesn't work to well below the frequency of the port) and ported enclosures typically produce more bass.

note the use of the word Typically in there... mileage may vary!

I wanted to stick with two 15's, so I am thinking about making a fibreglass enclosure for the back section, since this is basically two big boxes on their sides sticking slightly above the back seats where the parcel shelf is normally (hatch)

Dutchy, whats the difference with the two ports... does the SPL lose alot of quality? With SPL comps, do you turn the music up to just before it starts distorting, or just go all the way?

Would smaller enclosures, and another 2 PCW15's be better than upgrading the two I have already? This way I can run 2x 1kW monoblocks and 4x 15" PCW15's with the capability of running 500wrms to each. This would only set me back another $1400 including the equip I have now. (Price for 2x soundstream 1000D's and two PCW15's). Surely that would have killer SPL within the car and be alot easier and look alot better than upgrading to just two better 15's?

Im not interested in entering competitions, I just want something that looks nice and can pump decent db's.

can i just say, your poor ears with bass that loud for driving...

Just read this, and I have two Pioneer WS-306C in a box downstairs. I was running 160wrms into each, when they were rated at 150wrms -- Now that I read this, I think I should give them another chance and triple the wattage.

Not that it would help much, but my two 306c getting 160wrms apiece was loud enough for listening to music but I suspect you are thinking like me -- You want to have the ability to boost the bass up at the stoplight and make all the license plates for 300 feet buzz profusely.

if your not intersted in competing then what your looking at is going to be heaps for daily driving.i have a festiva with U.S AUDIO 1500w max monoblock with 2 dvc soundstorm 10" elcheapo subs in a ported box that can pull 140+.but i'd be lucky to use half the power when driving around even when i'm showing off. it's not hard to be loud in a little hatch.

I would recommend building a custom SPL box just for shows, unless your sealed box will be a pain to remove when shows come up.

Back a few months we tested certain subs, and from 1 x Farenheit 10" (RRP $220, so a pretty cheap sub) we managed 142.5db. Ported boxes produce the goods and i reckon the festiva will be pretty good for SPL.

I estimate (rough guess) with 4 x 15's and 2kw in the festva (sealed box) i reckon between 140-145db. I dont know anything about your subs but so i could be wrong. It also depends on placement of the woofers too.

I did 151 with 3Kw and 2x 15"s in a Festiva .. oh, and it was the loudest Aspire/Pride shaped Festiva in the world..
2Kw and a single 15" should take you to 142-145. PM me if you want some real advice from someone who's actually worked on these cars.

Sealed Pioneer?? or are you talking ported?
If thats sealed i gotta get me a Festiva and a pioneer 15"

It's very possible.

One of Cartunez's customers got 143 with two $229 10s and a $450, 600W amp.

With more power it made 145.7 all Street A legal.

Phil

BlackIce, YOU are the REASON I got the festiva.

After reading this site, and messing around with my crappy Magna and response 2x150wrms amp with 10" Crossfire and 12" Alpine thinkin I was all that... I sorta wanted a change. I invested in the two 15's and the Eclipse XA4000 amp and was really pleased after fitting them in my festiva that I bought.

I also have a P4 3.2Ghz Toshiba laptop with wireless kb/mouse/gamepad, and 15" silver HP LCD for the dash, above the aircond controls. I will be buying a GPS reciever for like $100/200 also.

I have downloaded about 200 music videos in the past week, and am nearly ready to put the system back in my car. This time when I install it I am going to strip the interior right down and clean it up, reskin the door skin fabrics, mount my screen properly, make a metal box/case for under the passenger seat for the laptop and do something with the subs in the back.

I have considered a perspex wall too after talking about the 4x15's idea. I just dont want to be pulled over by cops, or ppl looking at me. I dont like my music loud to show off... I just love my music.

Ill go re-read your threads, Blackice, but I will be sticking a B6 engine where the B3 is now, using the B3 injection and head for higher compression and roller rockers within the next few weeks too. The old boy went to asia for six months, so I have his car to get to work with, so the festiva is going to be taken off the road soon.

This is what happen in 06 when I took my magna off the road for four months...

Sry I had to add that pic.

Yeah but not sealed. I beleive the bloke was talking about sealed application for music and the occasional comp.

I doubt a sealed pioneer would do a 145..... even with 2kw.

I remember two cars at BAS, both running single 15's(DD), 2-3kw and SPL tuned slot ports only doing 45/46.

.......?

Why does he need to go sealed for music?

Phil

who was that? i got a 143dbs out of my two pioneer subs before they started to go backwards. not bad for a setup that cost me less then $400

Roo

He spoke about a sealed applicaton, thats why i say that.

Personally i think sealed owns over ported for sound.
Not for low bass, but sealed is so much more controlled and faster(punchy). From my experience, in a sealed box the sub/s dont lose control when a variety of frequencies are thrown at them. (They still can but no where to the degree of ported).

I know alot of SQers suggest ported, but in SQ all your sub does is play the low sub bass. I enjoy a bit of mid(punch) from my woofers.

Anyway back on topic, I think if you do run 4 x 15's in your festiva with 2 kw you are almost certain to acheive at least 140db. My friend with 2 sealed 12's and 1kw in a NXR got 139.9db.

I have two sealed enclosures at the moment for my 15's... my last setup in my magna was ported, I want ported

What everyone's trying to say is 140+ is easy with cheap woofers, but don't expect quality at that level.

I beleive to do quality at 140+ you need to go at least up to the next level.

even most SQ cars with many $$$ subs barely get to 140.

did 146.1 and consistant 145.5's with 4x sony 15's in sealed boxes. in my swift. thats a total of only $500 for the 4 subs.
was feading them 450wrms per sub.
always just depends on how you are going to set the subs up thats all

but to give ya an idea im doing a stereo for a N13 pulsar at the moment its having a total of 1500 spent on the car.
that all includes, install, cables, gear and box built. it is going to have a removable slot port one for SQ and one for SPL and that will have no probs doing over 140. so yes with cheap gear you can do over 140db.

cheers billy

Easy to do big numbers with cheap gear, been there done that a LONG time ago.

I learnt from the installs that Obesesimon did in my own car and the other vehicles he has done along the years, if you know what you are doing it isn't hard.

I had the priveledge of gleaning lots of info from him and watching him work, and from a lot of my own designs and research too.

People think there is some sort of magic secret to SPL and loud music systems, those same people probably think 500wrms running a single 15 inch sub in the boot of a VL Commodore is loud...

Ok, nice... I think I just sold one of my subs so I am thinking of going with 4x12" 306C's and a Soundstream 2kW monoblock running them at 1ohm. I think this would give me more power for the $1200 its going to cost me, than two 400wrms 15's could.

Also if I were to go to a sound off I could still run in Street C I think. I am looking at future upgrades too... so buying strappable 1.5/2kW amps and making a fibreglass enclosure for four 12's would really help me for the future and when I upgrade.

The PCW soundstream subs are really just poor quality woofers... crappy glue etc, I have problems with mine and their voice coils frying and giving out different ohm readings etc.

I am really in a spot with which brands I want too. Eclipse has been nothing but brilliant, but the after sales assistance and warranty has been CRAP. Over 2006 Easter, after having my 5425 deck for two weeks... I got it back four weeks after taking it back. I rang Eclipse, they said they had the deck for one day then dispatched it back out.
Soundstream seem good for the money, but compared to other brands they dont have the same build quality. But also i have bought $200 ($400rrp) 15" subs, so you have to expect that when you give them a caining everyday.

I wont have to worry about subs until a couple months after I get the 306C's in, which im hoping to have within a couple weeks. But its a toss up at the moment between the Soundstream Picasso series monoblock or the Response 1500w. The Soundstream is cheaper by a bit too...

HISPL... unless there is 4x 15's running 500wrms in a commodore I dont think its loud and can crank that full and listen to it lol...

One of my mates is running a 605 monoblock and two type r 12's in his VQ statesman, and my two 15's and Eclipse XA4000 with the problems it had absolutely crap on his system, even with the thing cutting out.

Four 12's would be a bit of overkill I think for listening to, but at least I could run my stuff on half, and damage ear drums when I want to.

look at the link fury posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHzS2fWuP1A

its chargers navara. he has 4 306cs, not sure how much they are running each....

145.8, on music..

not bad for 400 bucks of subs...

and it looks crazy as well..

And you want to drive around town with 140 decibels.... your poor poor ears.

140db+ is great for comps, ohh and to claim your car can do 140+, but wasn't it about the music?.

Omg, Lil John ftw... thats killer.

What amp is he using, do you know?

Yea it is about the music

2x15" Soundstreams with 400+ wrms going to each isnt enough for me in a Festiva. So I might as well go and get 4x 306C's, then upgrade for quality later.

Also I really want 150db+ if im going to build for numbers.

You've already experienced problems with cheap gear = money down the toilet!

Buy one $800 sub instead of four $200 subs.

It will sound better
If it's the right sub in the right box, it will play louder
And it will definitely will last longer

Don’t worry about impressing your mates with four “fully sick subwoofers”, blow them away with the cleanest, tightest, loudest bass they’ve ever heard. Then, wait for the look on their faces when you open the boot and reveal a single woofer…..

Phil

As far as I know he is running 2x Sony 900rms monoblocks


And also, I am with DD Phil....there is a 9915 going for a grand at the moment, I would snap that up and start saving for a descent amp to run it

Well Phil, I have been thinking to myself the past couple days.... and since I will be spending a bit of money on car audio, like over ten grand a year easily, I might as well try aim to build my system for some sound off class.

The Pioneer 306C's are worth $118 at JB Hifi at the moment. ($400 for four subs)
2kW @ 1ohm Soundstream PCA2000D amp - $750 (Or 3.5kW Version for $1200 for future upgradability)
Buying this setup will get me there straight away. However buying a monoblock for my 2x15's would also. That is why I am thinking cheap at the moment.

However, I have two Soundstream 15's at the moment, which are 400wrms rated each. Perhaps I am better off just keeping with the 2x15"s idea, because I really think my 15's hammer over 12's. I just thought 4x12's would be better than 2x15's.

Street C is what I am probably aiming to build the car for. I got a good link for info here: (http://www.termpro.com/dbdrag/rules/)

But temporarily, for some audio now while I save more cash, I have a LW1.350 Soundstream monoblock here. It says its 1.5ohm stable and pushes out 450wrms at that (350wrms @ 2ohm) but I have two 15" 4ohm DVC subs and dont know whether to run one sub at 2ohm or two at 1ohm.

I want to work out whether I want to go with 2x15's or 4x12's.

I will be buying strappable 2kW+ amps for future upgrading. (If I go with 4x12's I can run up to 8 amps, giving each 12" 4kW @ 2ohm each.

The next two weeks I wanted to concentrate on getting my 15' back in the car, perhaps both if I dont sell the other. Reinstall my computer and LCD, do all the wiring properly and clean the interior right up.

If I had $800 to spend on one sub right now then I probably would. But for now my budget is about $200pw+... I have a mortgage and bills to maintain, and problems with the stability of my job right now. Some weeks I can starve and not go out and internet bum it, so they will be the $500pw weeks

Pirate: Im not interested in second hand equipment at all.

why not 2nd hand gear?? i thought the exact same, then i woke up to myself.

i picked up a 1100 dollar pair of splits, for $300. the only thing wrong with them, is some minor scratches on teh back, which you wont see anyways. other than that they run perfectly fine.

you pick up some awesome deals...
look around for those pioneer subs, pick em up 2nd hand, for 60 bucks!!!!

man can someone stop feading this kid all this information. everyone has him thinking if he spends stuff all, now he will do good numbers.

read a few posts up he wants to do 150's come on guys give him better information. some have give him ok but others are just sticking there two cents in now.

but ok LOOK MAN it took me i think to go from my first comp of 145.5's to 149's 3 months. and then to 151-152's about another 2 months later.
that took working on my car just about every weekend trying different hings and testing it and testing and also 4 rebuilds. and that a walled set-up wth little power if i didnt have it walled i would need more then my current 3000wrms.

in a street C set-up managed 144.9 in a hatchback running 2850wrms into 2x 15's. but yes if you want the numbers it does cost you in the end 140's can be fun but 150's and above gets expensive. as many can verify.

but honestly in my opinion if you wanna try get good numbers then you will need good gear ok. if you wont low numbers of say 135-140 then buy cheap gear. thats my opnion.

AND HOW BOuT WE JUST STOP WITH THE FACT CHEAP GEAR WoRKS IT DOESNT IN THE END IT EITHER FAILS OR IT ONLY GOES SO FAR.

do it right the first time round so as not to do it again take it from a person that tried the cheap stuff first.

cheers billy

lol. normally im the first person to say that cheap gear gets you nowhere......

but some people are deadset on getting it..

No warranty! If you knew how much problems I had with stores and warranty for goods, and the bullcrap stories I have gotten from each place you would understand.

I would like to buy good brands, but Alberts are the only place that stock them for cheap in Perth. I would never shop there again. I went to Midland to pick up a sub and box, and told the guy that I was running 400wrms to it, and that I didnt want the stock flimsy wiring that come with the Aerpro boxes, and he said it would all be fine no problems and that it would be changed.

I got home and said, they gave me the sub in the box too quick to change the wiring properly... so I pulled the sub out the box, and there is wiring I wouldnt even run on my speakers there. Another bloke told me that I could run my DVC sub to a four channel amp and it would be fine. Took him back the sub to the Osb Park store and he measured the impedance and it was 2ohm or something on one coil and the right 4 ohms on the other. He changed the sub straight away and said ok dont do that. WTF!!!

Then they sell me a $700 XA4000 at Joondalup for $400 and tell me its fine to run it to my two 15's @ 2ohm and it will pump etc. Then I have had problems with them ever since and been f'd around. Then they tell me to run half of it to my front speakers when I already have all my speakers running off an amp. Then they give me $50 cash back and tell me to buy TWO $350 soundstream mono's... rediculous how they do business. And I will get my revenge!

JB hifi for $100 pioneer 12"s with warranty is the go I think.
Ebay for Soundstream amps is good too.

Edit: You are right Billy, I went from budget budget second hand crap to buying an Eclipse deck which I wanted to keep, and then the soundstream subs which I thought I wanted to keep.

Perhaps im better off keeping the 2x15's I have then start buying good monoblock amps. Im not really keen on spending $1000 on a second hand sub. However I do realize for good 15's Im going to need to spend that on a new one, each.

you are al worried about warranty, and getting fcuked around, then you buy off ebay???

thats the stupidist thing ive heard all day...

then ya know what to do. find someone and tell them exactly what ya want then get the prices. make sure its a trusting person. then you deposit the money to their account they buy the gear for you and frieght it to you. and bobs your unlce quality gear. you dont always need to buy from your local dealer.

after the past week i have purchased and had two guys trust me wth some 3,500 of their money to go buy gear. in the end saving them 1000-1500 each on their gear.
im seriously thinking of becoming a stereo broker bit like what a shar3es broker would do. someone tells me what they want i find cheaper prices or get the gear for them cheaper. for a small fee.

but yeah seriously there are people on here ya can trust in WA dont have decent shop find someone on the site that ya can trust to get the gear for ya and freight it to ya.

cheers billy



that sub you wouldnt ever need to buy a sub again if you bought that 9915 thats for sale for $1000. i dont like to buy second hand subs either and im sure not many do but that sub if it blows i think its only 400 for a recone or something phil can clarrify it for me.
but say you go buy a medium range sub then it blows more or less go buy a new one then and costs you heaps down the track one day.where as this sub will keep kicking and kicking recone after recone if needed but anyway trhats my advise

yeah, if you bought it, you would never need another sub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjQq60qI8Cs

thats the sub... the one with the yellow cone...

will blow anything, and everything out of the water.

So I can just get it reconed or something... like there is a way to rebuild subs?

I thought once they were thrashed they were stuffed.

What about with amps... I guess I could just learn about how they work and replace the parts that fry inside them? Second hand equip might be the go then. I saw a nice Atomic monoblock for cheap in the second hand section.

Wow trism thats crazy... I only got like $300 to spend this week! It will be like two months before I can save the $3g or whatever I need to buy a nice sub n amp.

that atomic monblock ya saw they are worth their dosh and the person selling them Leo as always looked after his gear and the sub is being sold by sonny they run their cars out of same camp.
most of us guys in SPL know the people selling that gear and they do look after their equipment. those amps and that sub have been looked after can vouch for if you decide to buy them then you will be buying quality.

you dont really need to spend much money to get high numbers, you just have to smart about what you buy. i got a second hand DD9515 and a OA X3000 these setup cost me less then $1500 and its good for 148.3dbs.

i would get that DD9915 and a nice big monoblock

Roo

I messed up before with buying crappy gear, and now wont do it again... Ill just stay with my 15" soundstream running off that lil wonder amp, and sell the other and start building funds for a different sub.

Whats better 2x 15's running 1ohm 450wrms going to them, or one 15" running 2ohm with 350wrms?

Dont know if the LW1.350 is 1ohm stable, it says its 1.5ohm stable, but dont see how thats good to me, since i got two dvc four ohm subs.

Time for work, peace

ah if its 1.5ohm stable it will handle a 1ohm load just dont go blasting it constantly for long periods thats all

i'd recommend only doing that when your testing how loud you get (comps etc). and then wire a more friendly load for driving, and impressing people.

ohh and no ones said it, so i will, a increase of 3db is double the sound intensity. sound pressure levels being measured on a logarithmic scale.

this is why cheap stuff can get 140, but why only expensive stuff and thinking/planning smart will get you up into 150's.

ps. i am with you on buying second hand, personally i wouldn't be buying something for 1k secondhand. Though some guys love to. I've only ever bought anything secondhand when its been at a extremely extremely good price. That way i can live with it karking after a few months. But to each his own.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG...oh boy is that wrong.

10dB is a perceived doubling of volume.

3dB however, is how much you will gain of you either double the surface area, or double the total power.

ie. 1 12" sub off 500wrms, may pull 135. if i add anotehr sub, ive doubled the surface area, and theoretically, i will gain 3dB. OR if i get a new amp, that outputs 1000wrms, theoretically i will gain 3dB

So 1k for a sub that retails for $2,299 isn't an extremely good price? Oh and the woofer has only being used at 1 show off 1500wrms for maybe 5-6 burps so it's still practically brand new and not run in yet. Oh and Just like music PM sent dude

amen to one woofer phil...

no warranty????

on a 9915???

you fool....


even if a brand new 9915 had no warranty, id still buy it,

there is nothing you can do to these subs my friend, and if you think there is better subs for spl, you are grossly misinformed...


you go get your 306's man, cos youll need a warranty with them,


leave the real subs for people who want real bass





on a less critical note,

BUY THE 9915 FOR SALE IN THE FORUMS,

AND THANK ME LATER


: D

Where are these prices from bros? 1200bux for a 3500D????

These amps r rare as, seen heeps of 1500D and 2000Ds... but a 3500D, was starting to think they were just a picture in a catalog.

lol at buddha.

wasnt there some nutter in teh US running 10kwrms + into a 99, and it begged for more??

and the owner beggd for 3 corks. One for each ear, and one to stick up his ----, b4 he shat himself.

Regardless, we offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner.

Phil

Keep the subs you have for the time being, save up some cash and buy 1 really good monoblock that is 1 ohm stable and can be loaded down for burps (aka DD Z1s ) also remember to purchase like 3 rolls of 0g cable even if it means saving for 6 months to do so.

Then, start saving again to buy new woofers.

As fars as the whole 2ND hand gear debate goes.....if you are smart you will pick up great deals, you just need to know who to buy from and ask questions to the right people.

Then there is the warranty issue you have, to be blunt if you are looking to compete in SPL then forget about warranties on any of your gear...why?


a) not many SPL competitors run their equipment at rated impedances or suggested power handling levels = NO WARRANTY

b) NO ONE will warranty a dead woofer when you have cooked the coils and in SPL where it isn't unusual to give your woofers a little clip here and there this is likely to happen, especially in cheaper woofers.