Hey guys,


Reading through existing threads on tweeter location I have noticed they tend to be more orientated towards people wanting to know the best location to install their tweeters for staging purposes and so on.


The purpose of this thread is to see where the majority of us install their tweeters...and more importantly why!



Anyway, submit a vote and feel free to reply with your reasoning behind your current tweeter location


Cheers,


Jason.

In my a-pillars in order to raise the stage away from my horns

a-pillars.

to raise stage height, and use the windscreen reflection to create a more spacious soundstage...

and they cant be accidentally kicked in the a-pillars

I picked elsewhere

I have some near the mids (firewall) and some near the A pillars/window sail area.

a tough poll me thinks..oi waycon update my advertising ........cors

Hey Pulse,


So when you state two different locations, I presume your running a 3 way setup? And the tweets are in the pillars and the other near the mid?

Mine are part of the strutural part of my A pillars

might be handy to specify speaker brand and model.. so peopel can read it and if they have the same speakers try the positions that seemed to have worked in this poll??

just an idea

any hooo

i got DLS Pro Slimlines

i used to have tweets mounted in top of my door... stage hieght was good... but it was way to harsh.. and very fatiguing to listen to..

i put them down into my kick panels and yes.. the satge hieght dropped buyt not to badly, however the harshness was gone and are now way better to listen to..

In my stock dash locations for the time being.

Tossing up on a good spot tho, Might go the a-pillars next and see if it improves.

I have Vifa XT25's mounted on the firewall, and Morel tweeters at the base of the A pillar, near the sail area, sort of near the door. ( I may move these onto the door near the window/mirror)

Gonadman - do you fine the Dyn's harsh or direct-sounding up there?

just a note , i thought there was a program running that stopped pics blowing out threads??....cors

Dyns in the A pillars had them in the kicks got marked down for stage height.
There also heaps louder up there,bright tweets might be to much though for everyday listening.

my morels are close to the mids about 1/2 way up the door my dash isnt very deep so its good for the sound stage.

it all depends on you car and what speakers you have.

Mines in the A pillar/sail for a higher stage height.

I wouldn't say that they are harsh (having come from the Focal TN-52's) but they can be sibilant with some types of music. Having said that they are extremely detailed and full sounding, and I do have them crossed over at only 3.5khz. I have no EQ and no TA either but they do image well. They have smoothed out a little since I got them as well. More tuning required but I don't think that I will be changing these babies in a hurry...

i ran mine in the kicks in the last car, dash the car before.

its a question that cannot be answered, each tweeter is different and each car is different.

unless you want to do a spreadsheat of every tweeter in every car then there is no way of telling.


my vifa's rocked in the kicks in the eunos, but the OZ tweeters didnt image at all in the same locations.

Currently have the Response Precision tweets in the A pillars, but they are too bright.
They would be better just above the woofer.
However, I expect my coming tweets, the DD's, to be much smoother.

Agree with Fudd though, no easy answer.

My Mille Tweets in kicks next to mids off axis, imaging is very very good.

do you think making a baffle plate, similar to the vifa/supremo/esotar type, for other tweeters would help with dispersion and imaging?

i think sibilance should be a new topic on its own...


i find that sometimes when i talk to people, or sing in the car on my own (sometimes not on my own) that i too have sibiliance naturally,

it shouldnt be marked down as a flaw, cos its real, and thats what SQ is isnt it??? real??

it may help slightly, but the tweeter is designed not to have one so i couldnt see it making much dfference. also you would have to modify the tweeter casing so that it's flat and dosnt have the rased plastic for the grill mount so the soundwaves are inhibited and can come out freely to use the disperson plate

if you have sibilance, that's fine - if the recording doesn't, then there should be none when played back.

fair,

it just seems that sibilance is so taboo sometimes, and almost voodoo,

its natural

yeah... chuck it in the "might be an idea to try one day" bucket.

Fuddbutter- Im interested in the idea of dispersion plates, or even removing the grille lip from a tweet mount, how important is this in gaining SQ?

Most of the setups I have seen/heard had tweets behind grilles, stock dash locations or obscured by something, is there really that much gain in having a tweet unobscured and correctly dispersed?

i would say it depends on what tweeter it is..

i know of heaps of ppl that cover theres with speaker clothe, or some sort of grill, to purposely obscure them coz they are overly bright...

Im thinking my MB Quart tweets are too bright, regardless of the fact that they are firing into my windscreen, obscured by stock dash grilles and are on a -3 Db setting.

If I put em in the a-pillars they'd kill me!

Definately need to move to a smoother more relaxed type of tweet, I don't think Im keen on lowering my soundstage by kick mounting (didnt like the sound at all when I blu-tacked em down there for a week or so)

This dispersion idea got me thinking.. will it smooth a bright sounding tweeter? or does it just help with imaging?

I'm playing around with the location of my Vifa XT25 tweets, currently they are less than a handspan above the pods I made for the mids, coving the opening of the stock speaker location. The sound is very nice, but they are off axis and fire at each other, the sound is noticably better (more detailed) when you lower you head on-axis so I think I will be making up tweeter pods that angle the tweeters but keep the current locations if I can just work out how to go about it

Wow, great to see some good responses coming out


I know that each car/tweeter and whatnot will differ, but its in the replies about getting each member to comment on there setup which is great to see!


Keep em coming

First I'll say as others have that there is no one ideal location that will suit everything.
What I have found that usually works best for my taste is to get them as far away from me as possible. In cars I've had where the windscreen is fairly close to me, I'll put them down in the kick panels near the mids and run some lower level ambient tweeters up high on the dash at about 10-12 khz hi-pass.
I find running this way FOR ME gives a really nice stage and the ambient tweeter provide a "spacious" sound like you're in a larger environment than the cabin of a car.

Where the dash is a long, I'll get them on the dash only if I can get a mid range up there too!!

The direction of the tweeters is critical IMO. Basic rule of thumb I begin with, is to point them at the rear vision mirror. This compensates for the fact the the drivers side tweeter is closer and hence becomes further off axis and will naturally sound more balanced without the need to adjust the headunit. (I'm a big fan of simplicity. The less cutting/boosting/EQing etc...the better)

The reason I get them further away also is to balance the ratio of distance to the tweeters.

EG: If your tweeters are close to you (high in doors for example), the drivers side tweeter will be about three times closer to you than the passenger side. If they are way down in the kicks, it will be only about 1.5 times closer again reducing the need for excessive adjustment on the deck.

This is just my opinion...everyone is different

great, thats what we need, more people like ESSQUE who are informative,

keep coming with the teqniques guys, very good thread,

Sorry...just like to add that the whole situation changes when I run a 5.1 set-up.
If the centre channel is down low below the screen, then the speakers will be low and vise versa if the centre channel is up high on the dash to keep the front imaging on an even plane. I still try to stick to the format I stated earlier. I will try to locate the centre channel to suit my speaker locations, not the other way around

A-pillars / factory position

Voted A-pillars.

Have a read of this from planet audio. It's regarding the dispersion trials by amfibius and his home set up regarding tweeters and fabrics around dispersion plates, as to what to use in car audio, it'd be up to trial and error I think...


http://www.planetaudio.com.au/forum/index....round&st=20

about halfway up the A pillar.....need to make some pods up to angle them more toward the opposite head rest as they are currently pointing toward the opposite footwell

its quite interesting because i had them on the dash in the first comp i went to....then got told to move them up onto the a pillar....massive improvement

although i remember in Dan's ute he had the tweets in the corner of the dash/windscreen....but they were focals and apparently bright

Its funny,

I just realized if I had started this thread in the SPL section (or any other section) i think the A-Pillar option would be the least favorite position, but I am glad to see all you SQ'ers doing it right! ha ha


Keep em coming!

I have my tweets placed down in the kicks.

I have mine in kicks with my midrange. You dont need them up high to have a high stage. I spent months playing with mine for best image/staging.

Show me a car with a pillar mounts that doesnt suffer seperation or images well with a deep male voice please. anyway mount em where ever works for you....most tweeters are mounted on the midrange, as coaxs are fitteed in most cars from factory, so a poll is useless, as factory locations would win everytime if it based on whats most common lol
peace
Cyberpunky

testing makes perfect. start with the a-piller and then test different positions until you find the perfect spot for you and your particular car.

I personally find dash and a pillar mounts to be best, but have also found various door positions to work quite well also.

My tweeters are next to my mids, on my pillars/sails.

Top of dash, off axis

I've got my mids and tweeters in the A pillars, firing straight across the dash at each other. It's a 03 ford fiesta, with decent size A pillars.

i think kicks are the best option, as the best cars ive heard, have all had the stuff in there kicks,



cyberpunkies car is the best ar ive ever heard in regards to stable focused imaging, depth and width, from both sides,

better than fudds old eunos, only in imaging thouh IMO

Thats a big call....

I listened to both cars at finals. While i enjoyed bruce's sound more than fudd's eunos, i thought the eunos had a superior "sound quality" to the rolla. That includes imaging. I think the judges thought the same.

That being said, its always gonna be an individual thing. Such is the nature of SQ.

I have the same set-up that Essque mentioned. I have my mids and tweeters mounted together in the door and have a third set of tweters in the a-pillars that are cut at approx 8000khz for ambients. I found this gave the best image and solved the 'rainbow effect' i got from just having all the front stage in the doors. Keep in mind though, due to the nature of my install, i wasnt able to play around with tweeter positioning before mounting them solidly.

Wood

jsut trying to add my 2 cents...

woldnt it be ideal to get all yor drivers as close to each othere...for a point source output...( althogh practicaly not always possible in a car)

so in a 3 way set up... i guess having mids and tweeets near to each other would be beter..

with both of them as near as to the mid bass as possible.... although the A pillars are also good for elavaing th overall soundstage....

well i have my mids in the corner of the dash..next to the glove ( a stock location for my hatch..) my tweets are mounted below near the mids... with the midbass on teh doors....




However, this thread is so intersting..am itcing to experiment.. with my next upgrade...

This is an except from a manual I wrote for an audio company...

Finding the “Perfect Location”

In the 12v industry it is difficult to find speaker locations that are equidistant to the listening position. That is unless you are willing to redesign and modify the interior of your vehicle to put yourself in the middle of the soundstage. For most consumers redesigning the interior is not an option. That is why it’s essential to find locations that minimize the difference in path lengths for the left and right speakers. In most vehicles, speakers installed low in the front kick panels will have the least difference in path lengths. This type of installation offers the best overall imaging, but often with a more difficult install.

As a rule the most accurate and painless way to determine the ideal location for your midrange is to test first. Sounds simple enough, right? All you need is the system working in the vehicle you are working on and some test enclosures (these can be made of cardboard). Play the midrange with music that you are familiar with and be sure it has good strong center image. Move the speakers around (in places where install is possible) until you locate the best placement by ear. Your ears are the best test equipment you can use.

Finding the best location for the tweeter
Once the location of the midranges has been found, the next step is to find a location for the tweeter. The goal is to discover the tweeter location that allows seamless blending of the tweeter into the midrange. There are several elements of placement that need to be addressed.
How close should I place the tweeter to the midrange?
For the best results, the tweeter should be placed where it blends the best with the midrange. Correct placement causes the least amount of constructive or destructive interference. Constructive and destructive interference is a description of change in perceived amplitude when two independent acoustical sound waves intersect each other. Just like when two pebbles are dropped in a pond. The waves of water caused by these two pebbles intersect; the intensity of the waves can be compounded or negated depending on their position on the water.
As you test it will become noticeable the closer the two sounds originate in relation to one another, the less chance there is for interference to occur. From another perspective, if the two sound waves are far enough apart, the interference can also be minimized.
The critical factor is the crossover frequency. The crossover frequency is the frequency at which both the midrange and tweeter have about the same acoustical output. For the best results, the tweeter should be less than ½ the wavelength of the crossover frequency or equal to 2 wavelengths of the crossover frequency. For a midrange-tweeter crossover set to 1800 Hz, these critical distances are 3.25” and 15” (180CS’s crossover point).
The more of a vertical array you can transfer to the listening position, the more the tweeter and the midrange will act as a single source. The closer you come to a horizontal array, the more confused the center image will be. Outstanding results can be accomplished when the tweeter is mounted directly above or below the driver. This is possible because both situations can maximize the vertical array effect. Trying as many different mounting locations as possible to determine the perfect location will rewarded with awesome sound quality and performance

In closing I have found that mounting the tweeter high in the A-pillar in an attempt to raise the sound stage can sometimes lead to the tweeter becoming harsh, thin, or shill due to sound being reflected and colored by the windshield and surround glass. Where as a placement lower in the vehicle will allow a speaker system to retain most if not all of its natural warmth. But this is only my humble opinion.

Well said Prometheus

i sat my tweeters on the dash facing up at the windscreen today....it sounds so different but i cant tell if its better or worse.....i think i need to undo some of the time alignment as it has dragger the sound stage to the left a little

My Be's are low in the A pillar, moulded in and firing up to a point about 6 inches below, but parallel to the rearview mirror.

the rake of my windscreen allows this, as it's very steep, unlike many modern cars. It also has a fairly flat cross-sectional area, which disperses / reflects the sound quite effectively. For me, it's how I want my sound stage... in front of the engine, just above the fan.

I like to have a spacious stage that feels really tight, like a studio.

I also feel that I could do with another pair of midbass drivers, purely because the doors look like they need an extra few kg on each side to balance the look. Not because my stage is lacking any midbass presence - the doors just look...... bare

i saw a perfect-well near perfect-car for sq setup as far as dash depth goes. i think it was a kia or some poxy people mover, but the dash was bloody deep! would have been about a metre to the base of the w/screen!

i had my diamonds down low-cos thats where i put them!
would have liked i bit more height tho.