I know it seems like a peculiar question for us SQ heads but I was asked this today whilst tuning a system. The owner was somewhat surprised to hear me respond in the affirmative. So I thought I’d pose the question here; does anyone else use high quality head phones as a tool (one of many of course) for staging?

For example, when getting to know a song (that we will ultimately use for staging) I listen to it through quite a few different systems and then listen to it through quite a few different head phones to get its ideal physical staging points. Call me strange but I just find that when learning the staging points of a new song, we’re greatly aided by the use of head phones as staging (whilst not perfect).

Anyone else share this opinion perchance?

I find that headphones can give a good idea of linearity, or 'feel' of some recordings.
unless you have a HRTF or dummy head recording, then depth and width are extremely compressed by the lack of 'ears' directing the sound.

I remember trying out Dads headphones when I was a kid and thought they were amazing. Seems they're not so popular anymore but I would definately use them for this purpose.

Is there any way of plugging them into a HU? That would be awesome

Would it not be better to use a surround sound system for the staging? 5.1 to define the staging? I know many cars don't run 5.1, but would it not give you a better idea of stage and depth of the stage?

I find that Headphones affect the staging depending on the type of HP used. Open back (supra-aural?) give the music an open and airy feel about it, whereas closed back (sealed) give a closer more intimate sound. I find that bass and linearity is better with closed HP.

I do find that good quality headphones can make a poor recording sound great, and they generally offer a lovely flat response.

Atomic Magazine ( http://www.atomicmpc.com.au ) did a roundup of headphones a couple of months ago.

I can find the article next week if anyone's interested in having a read

I would be

Stereo relies on acoustic crosstalk for time sensitive frequencies.
Quite simply a stereo system cannot prevent both ears from receiving signals from each speaker. The result is crosstalk at each ear. On a true stereo microphone setup, the microphone are in coincident, in theory your image should be 180 degrees apart, however the crosstalk reduces this to 120 degrees apart.
You will recognise this as the preferred position for your stereo speakers,IE 60 degrees, or 120 degrees apart.

Headphones can and do eliminate acoustic crosstalk, and therefore alter the image position back to 180 degrees apart. In theory this should be acceptable because your headphones are separated by 180 degrees, the result is a loss in image depth and width because stereo relies on this 120 degree shift to "pull" the image forward and out. One advantage is at intensity sensitive frequency band width, cross talk is removed, resulting in a much clearer image.


Headphones are great for tone and possibly setting intensity sensitive frequency band width. Time sensitive frequencies the image will appear to be on your nose at best, and in your head at worst.

I use Grado RS1, they are quite good for tone tuning.

i use headphones for tonality. i spent maybe a grand on a computer sound card, headphone and headphone amp. i also use it to find a 'centre stage' as often the vocals or guitarist isn't centre and headphones are simply the easiest way to find the centre stage. anything other than that i dont really require a reference anyway.

width and depth is a function of time, the more time u spend on ur system the better the width and depth. unfortunately thats not good commercial practice.

finally comes stage height. to me, stage height is the least important aspect and i find i will compromise stage height a bit to find a better width and depth. again, thats just a function of time. dont really need a reference for that.

I do for sure.

I've got a pair of AKG K501's. They're labelled as purist headphones so the staging is incredible. Most of the music I listen to doesn't have a great sound stage (ie, house, rap etc), but the occasional song, such as 'Outside' by Staind, has excellent staging.

They say that a good pair of headphones can have the SQ of a pair of speakers 10 times the price

Yep I've used headphones for years:

Source: Rotel RCD-951 20 bit burr brown cd player
Cables: IXOS gamma geometry
Amp: Perreaux SXH-1 class A
Phones: Sennheiser HD-590 open back

The staging is razor sharp and the comment about offering SQ of loudpseakers 10x the price is 100% correct.

i have a dedicated home theatre room steup (insulated ect...) i also have a system set up in there just for SQ, sep amp(NAD) cd(denon SACD) and SQ speakers(ALR Jordans) they have been setup for perfect staging,using laser level, tape measure and my ear. I use this system to pick apart the music i use for setting up car SQ systems and i find it amazing to hear the flaws in some of the recordings that i would assume in a car would sound great. Prime example is the band "Yello" most of their recordings use the primary instuments as vocal(not much singing in their songs)so there is not much separation in alot of their tracks(mostly just the midbass and drum beats are recorded giving the peception of width)

but in saying all that yes i have used headphones in the past to pick apart music to find where everything is

Not sure how copyright goes, but I'll take this down if asked.
Review on several different models of headphones, closed and open types...
Atomic Headphones

1.8MB pdf.

The headphones reviewed by Atomic seemed to be targeted more towards Computer users (with the majority being closed) and not so much audiophile type cans

Open Supra-aural headphones I think give the best sound (owning a pair of Alessandro MS-Pro's) but everyone to there own...

I find open headphones to be much more accurate then closed due to the bass not being as sharp and the sound not being as 'natural' in a closed environment...but then again, I haven't listened to a descent (ie - over $300) closed headphones before.


Head over to http://www.headphones.com.au/forums/index.php to get some info on headphone related questions

inside a car is a very closed environment also - same things apply in car as headphones.

If you don't mind the computer-specific jargon, tha Atomic article actually describes the sound quality quite well I thought.

Thats why I drive with my window down! Just kidding..


Yeah I didn't mind the article, I am a big fan of Atomic personally, but I don't buy it for the simple reason is that by the time its released I have already read half the stories on the net!


OK back on topic now

its the first time ive used heap phones in awhile....and its amazing how different songs sound....i find i pick up so many different aspects of songs that i just dont notice or hear in the car

just using some panasonic in ear ones....looking at upgrading to the sennheiser in ear ones in the next few weeks as i plan to be listening to a fair bit of music at and going to and from uni

Riley, just a heads up...don't buy Sennheiser! Save a bit and go for Shure! You will not be dissapointed

i want to get me a set of headphones. ive never used a really high end set but ive used some nice ones still. but ive never been impressed. yes it sounds good but it always feels laking coz i cant "feel" the music.

im sure when PA merges with CAA we will get some more informed responses on this topic.

Exactly what I was gong to say

I've found my best benchmark as far as imaging and staging to be my Wharfedales at home. They aren't exactly ultra high end speakers, but to me they give a more precise staging and imaging then I get from my headphones or (obviously) from my car.

I have a set of Sennheiser (the older HD535 model) headphones myself, and while that are quite good they just don't seem to portray stage dimensions well - it's just too compressed.

i too love my wharfdales. tho i think after 20years they need refurbishment. i thrashed them as a young teen.

yer, u do get a compressed image, but u can pinpoint exactly where each instrument is on the stage. which i feel is much more important than stage height and width. stage height and width is fairly easy to find without a reference as u just fiddle until u can get the best results.

but u do need a reference to be able to place instruments on a stage. not all vocals are centre. headphones are pretty good at this.

Stax Electrostatic headphones...
now THERE's some stage dimension and clarity