Hi guys,

As requested, here is the judging sheet I devised for the comp last weekend.

Phil

Hey Phil,

There were a few things I wasnt clear on with the score sheet from the weekend. You mentioned that you wanted some feedback on the 'Impact' section. I think I understand what you mean but maybe you want to clarify it a little

Also Honda may be pi$$ed you gave their factory HU only 4/10 for both structural and cosmetic integration although I'm guessing this included my EQ installation as well ? LOL

All in all, you and Woody did a great job. Thanks for your time and feedback. I cant say I agree with your comments on all the cars, but everyones different I guess. For my car, I think I'd agree with about 90% of the comments

Thanks again

The bit I find most interesting (especially given the feedback (criticism?) we've had over the last couple of seasons), is that the actual sound quality is only worth 120 points, and all the other stuff is worth 130 points.

Interesting balance (inbalance?).

Just my perspective.

To be honest, I am not totally sure why Car Tunez did not approach us to run this event as a CAASQ event - unsanctioned. We have been working so hard for a long time now to deliver a truly national SQ format for Australia and it's strange that some of our very own supporters (DD and Car Tunez) still want to try and go against the grain and do their own thing.

Not having a go, just putting it on the table and thinking out loud.

I thought the same Marc, but then - most of that first 130 is to do with integrity, and mounting/wiring correctly - still a very important part of car stereo.

I know I'd hate to be beaten just on SQ if a car had half the speakers hanging from rope in the cabin area, and an amp/sub sliding around in the boot..... especially if I took the time, and money, to make sure everything was safe and secure for everyday driving.

I think compliance with ADR's is a very much overlooked issue, in both formats currently running in Aus.

Imagine the uproar if CAASQ competitor's vehicles were required to comply with all ADR's ?

We had enough trouble with an alarm and a fire extinguisher.

your car pulsar was not always neatly installed.
same as mine.

a car with speakers hanging from a rope in the cabin isnt going to win sq competitions though lol

I'm not in for starting an argument and certainly was not referring to any specific competitors, but some rules could be stricter in regards to legal and safety issues - whether through a required compliance to a rule, or a points deduction for non-compliance.

I understand fully why CAASQ has developed the way it has, and I support CAASQ aims.

I guess it depends what each competitor wants to achieve in their own car, whether they compete to win (improve in just one area), or to make overall improvements in their own driving experience. but this is not the thread for those discussions.

I like the Car Tunes Judging Sheet, that's all.

I gotta say it was fairly easy to run through on the day. Phil did the majority of the 'installation/safety' judging while I gave feedback to the competitor that we had just judged. Again, I thought it was gonna be a little interesting judging with Phil all afternoon but I found that our two different backgrounds gave a good balance when it came to sq judging. That being said, the cars we had to judge made it fairly easy to assess sound as well. I dont think there were to many at all that had the same type of sound.

All in all, i thought that everyone had a good afternoon and got some feedback on their stereo's prior to the serious stuff on the weekend. And some were even lucky enough to take away some cash which is a fairly good form of motivation!!!!

My only thoughts were that you could combine the 'installation cosmetics' section and the 'structural installation' section could be combined into one "component installation" section worth fortypoints. This solves the issue of the weighting and concentrates the pointscore on sound which I originally thought was the aim.

Also, I would probably lose the "Impact" section. While I fully understood what you were trying to do with it phil, I felt that it was a little ambiguous and could be difficult to explain to the everyday competitor. I also felt that alot of SQ cars wouldnt have the 'impact' you were expecting and would suffer trying to get a balance between the sq and impact. Now, I know your gonna say you can have both but as we saw, only one car was really capable of being to the standard that you were expecting (Congrats again Andrew) and to me that means it would be easier to not include it and make it easier for all competitors.

I did mention these thoughts briefly to Brad sunday evening in case you were wondering.

Marc, I think that the Cartunez group didnt have much interest in using the CAASQ format due to some of the factors included in the judging. I know they are not a fan of the fire extinguisher, alarm and the safety parts of the format. Now, I know it has been changed for the 2007 season but up until a fortnight ago, no-one knew about that as the format was changing again to suit this years season. Therefore, they decided to use their own format in the interest of making it easy for themselves. Again, thats just the reasoning I put behind it. It is purely speculation. Don't know if that is actually the case or not.

Wood

To me the Car Tunez scoring sheet reminded me a lot of the old IASCA rules. It was nice having a bit of installation score included without needing to go to the trouble and expense of a 'show' install.

I'll have to catch up with you sometime though Woody because I've got questions on some of your thoughts from Sunday

You know where I live on thursday nights...

Its sorta like "CHEERS" without the bar and alcohol...

Wood

i like the cartunez score sheet. and like kiwi, i too am fond of the old iasca format....

The SQ part of the sheet was comprehensive and accurate but too much emphasis on the car as a whole. Leaves it open for for impeccably presented/installed cars with meagre SQ to convincingly beat ones that sound better. This may be traces of the old IASCA format, I dont know....I wasnt in the scene in that era.

Never heard Andrews Astina on the day, but the judges awarded it best sounding car (which it probably deserved, decent gear in the thing). However in total points scored, my Honda was ahead by 20-30 points.

Brad asked me to come up with something on Saturday.

I devised the format and judging sheet on Sunday morning, then spent the best part of the day judging.



Well a stock head unit should score mid points (5), but as you said the processor let you down giving -1, hence the 4 out of 10 score.

The whole point of car audio competition is to push the boundaries. Where would we be if you gave more than 5/10 for a stock head unit??

The actual score isn't that important, look what other cars were scored. I doubt if anyone got more than 6/10 for head unit install.

In my day, a head unit with it's transport hidden in the dash, with the fascia custom moulded into the instrument cluster might have got 8/10 if flawlessly integrated.

None of the cars I judged had an install that blew me away. Very few sounded killer. Sorry, but I would have expected cars to be better in 2007 than 1997.

Attached is a pic of a car I did in 1993/4. JBL 1500GTi's isobaric. Motorised amps, fully custom built doors. Fully custom built crossovers, custom neon the list goes on and on.

Take at look at the cars Drew did back in the 1990s, his Celica for one.

Impact is something I believe all cars should have. I'm happy to show you what I mean with a demo some day. Impact is about grunt, balls, it's what puts a smile on your face. Impact is why you fill a car boot with amps. You just can't get the same experience at home.

Phil

Funny you should mention all that Phil. My car from the 90's did have a custom motorised HU chassis that went into the dash and a door automatically came out and closed over the blank space to give a seamless stealth look. AND drew was the installer

And of course my old car sounded better because it had its HLCD's, and a better deck. I think there's a problem with the current Street scoring sheet.. there's no need to 'blow anyone away' with the install. I know that's what 'Show' class is for, but a little focus on install would be nice. My install these days may not be killer because it was DIY and I'm working within the boundaries setdown by the wife , but most people I've spoken with have commented that at least I tried to integrate what I've done into the car without ditracting too much from what Honda put together.

Impact I'm not overly convinced about.. it seems to contradict the way its judged with low listening volumes listening for imaging and staging. I know their not mutually exclusive things, but its difficult to meet different criteria with judges expecting different sounds from a system.

My car was probably out of balance as Woody has mentioned but thats because I've never metered it, or listened to any of the current crop of reference CD's. Although you did have a copy of Highway 1 that almost bought a tear to my eye LOL

Thanks again Phil

Maybe one of the main reasons why I did not approch CAA to run it as a non-sanctioned event was I have contacted the head of CAA and emailed the link on the contact page as to why I am NOT allowed in the 'industry' forum on this website and never had a reply even though I am a paying sponsor/advertiser on this site......... If I can't get a simple answer about posting in that forum how would I get an answer on an event???????

For the record Marc I would have thought you would have applauded the fact that someone else is actually getting off thier a$$ and trying to build comps in Australia. We had competeitors that were here that would not normally go to Harry's comps due to the fact they wanted to get an idea of what they need before they go an try and break into the 'big leagues'. And it worked you will see some guys at harry's that now feel comfertable due to our comp.

WHO EVER SAID WE WERE GOING AGAINST CAASQ FORMAT????? It was the weighting of points. I made comments a while back about how an extinguisher can win or lose a comp, and what do you know? Now that whole safety section is worth 10 points, so obviously there was a problem with the scoring.......

Not stiring just putting it on the table and thinkin gout LOUD

I'm not having a go at you Ian, well maybe I am, but as a 'trained' CAA judge I would have thought that the possitive terminal on your battery, that I bumped off with my hand would have been a major down fall, well atleast when I install customer jobs I don't tape the battery terminals on with electrical tape, is that what is tought at CAA judging meetings???????

I can't believe you are still crying about that, you still took home $50 cash.... Kris's Pioneer demo car (top 10 autoslaon car) in my opinion deserved to win the $100 over your car. If it was just on SQ you would have got nothing. A car in novice scored higher than you, and Andrew's car scored higher too, and he had no sub.

As well as that from his past comments, Phil's idea of 'impact' seems to be a system that peaks in the bottom end. If so this takes away from linearity, thus taking away from accuracy.. in my opinion this entirely goes against the concept of 'sound quality'.

But I didn't compete nor am I even in the area, so I'll sit back and shut up now

Brad - pull your head in. I'm not even going to bother picking to pieces your reply.

You've had no problem picking up the phone any other time (nor have you had any problem getting me this way), so don't turn this into another issue entirely.

For the record, I haven't seen an email from you regarding the Industry Forum. All you need is the password, and as you work in the industry, ring me and ask me for it.

You can read my mind now?

FYI the track I used to judge "Impact" (perhaps "Life" would be a better term) starts with a mixed choir and then explodes into a harpsichord crescendo. It's from the Adam's Family soundtrack.

Often cars are built to score high with one CD, but the end result is a system like sounds dead, over processed and boring. Not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

Phil

Cool, I want!

Check your PMs

Phil

Ahh I kept hearing the Addams Family theme song, but didnt realise that was the tune you were using for 'Impact'

I'd be keen to hear it for myself Phil.. was it on the movie soundtrack ?

HAHA, now I know why I kept hearing the adams family quite loud when I didn't hear most of the other songs being played.

Luke

I came down there with the intention of it being along the lines of a test and tune, no a-pillars, major cosmetic damage from a glow stick and little time to detail the car, that and i attempted to do some tuning for both seats not just the drivers, im just happy it worked out in the end, also i dont think i got much feedback from woody, all in all the only downfall i could pick on the day was the lack of shade and sunscreen!!!!

Hey Andrew,

How are you going mate, was good to catch up at the Car Tunez comp. Just out of interest, was the car setup the same when I listened to it, as when it was judged by Woody and Phil ?

PS. Fix up those A-pillars, its killing my rep to get beaten by a car with blu-tack holding the speakers in !!

Theres nothing wrong with blu-tack. I spent a whole season with mine like that before I found the right spot

Hahah maybe you should re-brand it from Blu-tack to 'Woofer-tack' and start selling it in the CAA store for ONLY $49.99 a stick

Andrew,

Sorry mate. I got distracted with other stuff after Phil asked you to turn the subs up...

Needless to say though, we were impressed with it and I think you should play in Pro this year and stop wasting time in Amatuer.

Wood

when principles are over looked , the people that put these principles forward for benifit will look to other avenues to bring about their ideas.You need a blue tac class in pro street that has no leaderboard, its just for people that dont care about trophies or neatness.


how much moneySQ was available big phil?.............cors

After the judging and with his program material......

Phil

Zion...

It was $100 for first in both 'novice' and 'pro'. Followed by $50 for second. Andrew also won $50 for "Best sounding system". Keeping in mind that those class names are just there to seperate the two groups.

Making a little profit for an arvo of test n tuning is pretty good i reckon. Bonus that everyone had a good time to i guess.

What happened to the wet t-shirt comp Brad?? There was one obvious standout there but I was disappointed that no water was brought out......

Wood

yeah im good, at the moment ive got 2 different settings running my usual amateur settings and the pro settings, i used the pro settings on sunday



How come the class upgrade, it cant be that competitive can it??

Compared to the other cars you'll be competing against??

Ians Honda, Ant's Toyota, Dans Navara and maybe my xtrail???

Yes, It can be that competitive. Just do it and stop doubting yourself. The only way to improve is by competing against people of the same level or higher.

Plus, I know that Steve and Andy will like the sort of sound your car produces. Even if they are picky blokes...

Wood

The Navara won't be competing this season.

antisven, go into pro this season i might stand a chance in Amatuer then.

I have sold the Colt, the new owner might have a stab at novice..

lol....im not sure if you are serious or not

***Sits back and awaits the replies to that one....***

He can compete against the pulsar Brad...

LOL thats ok, the Pulsar doesnt go at the moment does it ? Or has the infamous water spill been fixed up ?

No.... after all the crying and whinging about how he should have to compete in whatever class.....

The headunit and brain are still in melbourne being repaired, rendering the stereo in the pulsar to an expensive paperweight. That being said, I'm still struggling to get him to come to soundoffs regardless. He wants to do Autosalon etc....

Edit... Happy B'day to ya missus Kiwi. But thats no excuse for not at least making an appearance this afternoon....

Wood

Hahah thanks Woody I'll let her know you said hello ... I'm going to come along for a bit this afternoon but not to compete.. I'll bring my daughter along to give mum some peace.

Good luck to everyone

I was only building the Colt to humiliate you Woody, but then you sold the Pulsar. DOH Bring on the X-Trail

Meh.... It wouldnt have been hard to humiliate the pulsar with the amount of gear your throwing at the colt....

And the Xtrail isn't being built for competing so I'm probably not gonna be much help for ya... sorry fella...

Aside from Drews projects, I dont think there's any cars on the go at the moment that would come close to that level of audio. And I know there's no other companies around in South East Queensland that can really build to that level of sound anyway....

Wood

privateer could swing past to tune the setup he has formulated over the net in the past months/years ......cors

I guess AUTOBARNS are not that bad after all

What are you talking about??? What does autobarn have to do with anything in this thread???

Unless your talking about the comment I made about other companies in South East not being up to Drew and Brads standard. Unless you can prove differently, I think I'll stand by that comment. I've yet to see an Autobarn car do any good in a comp that wasnt run by autobarn...

Hell even Jb Hifi are starting to get some results in official Db Drags (Justin Nowland). What are Autobarn doing here in South East Queensland?? Did you guys even show up at either of the comps run in the last fortnight??? Results speak for themselves. If you want the respect and the reputation then come out and join the rest of your industry members at these events. And if you can't be bothered at least send some of your customers...

*edit* Just have to clarify to avoid someone crying... I have no idea about any autobarn cars outside of my area so this really only applies to south east queensland...

Wood

I'm a regular customer of Autobarn Runaway Bay all our equipment has been purchased from there and we are regular competitors in db drags, as for results we WON street A at the last 2 Car tunze events and were the WINNER of street A at Harrys Diner last night, all our cars have quite large Autobarn stickes which you would have to be a little on the blind side not to see.

George
Team Aqua

And then?

This is getting a little off track now.

Woody didn't say anything bad about buying equipment from AutoBarn. I believe you do all the work on your cars?

Good to see you having a few wins George, and Paul at Runaway Bay A/B is champ.