Hi guys

I have been following the tweeter location poll pretty closely, and have a question regarding placement of tweeters, thought i better not clutter that thread up with a different issue.

I am going to be putting a SQ system into a newish commodore (VX). I will be putting a set of Focal splits in the front (will be amped, running through the focal crossover), The mids will be going in the factory locations (the bottom corner of the doors closest to the kicks)

My dilemma is that the factory tweeter location on these cars is in the corner of the dash close to the windcreen, so from looking at the other thread it seems that if i put the tweeter here i could have serious seperation issues as the mids and tweets are pretty far from each other (commodores are not small cars)

I am going to look towards finding somewhere low on the door next to the mids to put them, or maybe in the kicks seeing as it will still be extremely close to the mids, so no seperation should be apparent.
This seems like it will considerably lower the stage height. Reading the other thread i understand that a lot of SQ cars have tweeters in the kicks, and still have good stage height, my question is how can this be achieved? i do not want to put ambient tweeters up higher in the dash yet, as i am still very new to all this and want to get a simple system sounding decent first, i have not bought a head unit yet but i am looking at getting one with decent SQ features and time allignment etc, so i think this should help a bit shouldn't it?

Also if i do put them low down in the kicks etc, where is a better place to aim them? i have heard a lot of people say towards the opposite headrest, and then other say towards the rear view mirror?

Any other suggestions? i know people are going to say play around with the tweeter location to see what sounds best, and when i have it ready to go i will, just trying to plan what to try first and get a good idea of how to do things at the moment.

Cheers

with a tweeter like the focal, which are all farily bright and all have a solid high ne extension, kick panel mounting is actually recommended to take the edge of them a bit over a pillars...

the high end extnsion helps throw the image up almost always with these kinds of tweeters, its just the angling you have to get right...


if its the k2p's, the tweeter comes with a phase guide to aid this too (throwing most of the sound forward, and limiting the sides...


i have seen and tried a few things, the most wierdest would be bas mobsters new mazda, with tweeters coming out of the dash, and facing the windshield (hard to picture and explain)


but iv seen alot of people just flush mount thier tweeters to the kick panels, some point them at the opposite head rest, some at the headlamp, and one, even went on the floor, close to the kicks, facing directly up....


try them all, then try some sh!t you would never think would work...


but, with focals, i would get a good amp with heaps of power, and put them down low...

charlie

I've got the same setup as you. I have the tweeters high on the dash pointing at the windscreen. I think I'm going to run 2 sets of tweeters.. one down low in the kicks and then the dash ones for the ambients.. just need another amp to do that though

The splits are the 165KPs, one down from the K2P,s but i dont think they come with the phase guides.

Yeah sounds like i really should put them down low, i was going to run them and a sub off an audison SRx3, however the fronts would only get 65wrms each, im starting to think maybe i should buy a 2x100wrms decent qaulity amp for the fronts and a monoblock for the sub so that the fronts have a bit more power, but that means more money again.

jeez the ol' wallet hates car audio!

if you love your sound,


then the money doesnt matter, its money for enjoyment...


you spend 4000 dollars on flights for a two week holiday, for enjoyment,


yet 4000 dollars for poosible years seems to much???


get me??

do you have to be so convincing?

you will see a new topic from me next week if you keep it up "what is a good SQ 2 channel for $500"

dont bother....


i would get a dd c2 for that price, either that, or the focal 2 channel...

the focal amps made the k2ps sound so much better, that its almost stupid to get anything else...


the DD only cos they are tough as nails, literally, ask brad (cartunez) bout the one that went flying across a carpark and still worked fine, dinted and all..

and how much for these focal amps you speak of?

www.focalaustralia.com.au

The 165KP uses the same X/over and TN52 Tweeter and the 165K2P

if you bought the 165KF, then these use the polyglass X/over and TN47 Tweeters, making them a fairly inferior set by comparison.

if you do have the 165KP the focal x/over offers up to 7db of tweeter attenuation which should be plenty,
do some measurements and see if the stock location of the tweeters are similar length in distance as the midbass, if they are, then you shouldn't suffer too badly in the separation area, the other thing the stock commodore tweeter mounts are also semi on axis, which is a good thing if you plan to use them.
the issue is that half the sound will end up squashed under the dash, as the focals waveguide tends to disperse it's sound. you might need to remove the waveguide it comes off fairly easy, but makes removing the tweeter from it's mount more difficult. (without damaging them at least)

the trick I can tell you is, with the focal K series speakers, the more power you have available the better, "especially" if you want to constantly play them very loud. that range of focals tend to be way too sensitive to distorted input signals, if your amp is struggling in the slightest, then your speakers will play it making them sound potentially harsh or distorted, when in actual fact it's just playing what it's being given.

this doesn't mean if you have 500W RMS available to each side you can pump that into them, at the end of the day they are 80W RMS speakers, and dynamically should only be capable of accepting up to 160-200W momentarily. the key being that the amp will never be under stress if at worst it has to provide 200W but has 500W available, so the speakers are never forced to play a stressed signal.

Juls

yeah it is the 165KP set i bought, with the TN52 tweeter etc, has up to 7 att etc.

thanks for all the info juls and big buddha, it is very helpful

I'm gonna have fun then.. and i'll be watching this thread..

i have the midbass from that KP set you have (as a bass extension kit) and will be getting the 100KP's for a semi active 3 way front stage..
the amps are decided, which will be 2x350wrms each.. 1 for midbass, 1 for highs.. i have been told they'll handle it, but i'll be leavin the gains down low..

interesting points made..

ok, im a bit daunted as to what to do amp wise, considering i do not want too spend more then about 500 on the front stage amp.
Do i get a good qaulity amp like the focal 2x75wrms amp for around 570, or do i look for something with a touch less qaulity that has about 2 x 125wrms?

cheers

Please, just shop around and save a few extra pennies and get the Focal 2 x 150. it's a far superior amp to the 2 x 75, it's not just the power output thats better either.

If you shop smartly there is no reason why you cannot get the focal amp at a good price,
just avoid so called "exclusive" State specific agents for focal, they are the most expensive.

it will be worth it.
--------------------------

Damo, in regards to your setup,

I'm running the K3p + 100KP setup right now myself,
and it works well, do you have the 165K3P (KBE) Driver or the 165KP Driver to use as a midbass?
because they are drastically different midbass drivers, the 165KP is designed to run Full range 2 way, where the K3P version is designed as a Midbass Specific (up to 300hz) driver.

my K3P has run it's best when I had a 2 x 500 behind it, however it was only marginally better than when I had my 2 x 200 Soundstream connected, I'm running 2 x 125W at the moment into my K3P midbasses and its quite good, but sometimes (very occasionally) it feels a tad underpowered.

the K3P is not a effecient driver, in actual fact my Pair of K3P's draw more and use more power from my power system than my single 27KX subwoofer I had ever did.
However they can blow your legs off without a hint of getting upset, and play very happily down to 63hz x/over points. I find 72hz X/over is the best compromise between power handling and sub/midbass matching when using these drivers.

the 165KP isn't really designed to run as a midbass specific driver,
I did run the 165K2P as a midbass for awhile, and my god it has some midbass thump behind it, but much like the Rainbow Kicks it lacked below 70hz. you will suffer the same from the 165KP if thats what your using.
The K3P by comparison is much smoother and deeper and more realistic sounding as a midbass driver,
and provides a much better blend with your subbass when it is used specifically as a midbass driver only in a 3 way set.

for the reference of the rest of the thread in terms of a 2 way set, the 165KP has a smoother and slightly deeper midbass response than the K2P, and generally offers a more warm sound over the K2P driver, however this is at the expense of both high volume output and clean crisp midrange at high volumes. At medium volumes the 165KP could be considered a nicer sounding speaker to the K2P, where the K2P really shines is when you want to listen bloody loud, it is a superior driver in that sense.

Juls

Juls.. i heard the 165KP set in madtrav's car.. and rawked..

what i bought was the 165KBE.. the bass extension kit which came with passive crossovers to play <300Hz.. altho i was going to use this in an active 2 way setup.. but will work perfect with my 3 way if what you say is correct. i think my thoughts are confirmed.. thanks..

*back on topic..

i have the the older k2p's with them very slight angle toward the gear stick with no angle upwards and my stage height is on top of my dash. i am very happy with it in this position but as comps have got more serious and i'm looking for everyway to get more points i am seriously considering moving them for comps but if i were not such a hungry competitor i would leave them where they are. these tweets project a very high stage and i have surprized alot of judges and people with how high the stage is for having kick mounted tweets. best of luck!


these are the older tn45 tweets i have just painted the grill two pac (i'm a showie)

cheers

cheers man that eases my kind a little.
Nice install, the yellow is a bit bright for me but it looks clean.

huh???

what was the go with the quote then nothing.

yeah the yellow is the same colour as the car. check out my install thread in my sig. the yellow goes with my install theme.

thought that yellow might have matched the car.. looks good..

going by what you said 55EXX, the focals are best mounted in the kicks.. i think thats where i'll be mounting my 100KP's.. and i know they'll fit!

I have got Focal TN47's mounted on the dash currently, and apart from being a little sibilant, they work fine. The TN52's I think are a bit harsher.