hi guys,,,





as some may know, im tossing up between selling my sub and going sq, and keeping it..





im leaning toward sq, and have it mostly planned out...



the only problem being a subdoofer, i dont really wanna spend more than 1k, and i have 600 watts at 1 ohm, 400 odd wattts at 2 ohm, 4 ohm, isnt worth it,





so i need a sub, that will be what the new age sq nerds call absolutely clinically accurate... i want a sub not only for jazz and acoustic stuff, but something that is fast enough without delay for hard trance, low enough for rnb and electro, and one which can manouvre complex electro basslines without booming and losing control...



and i want it absolutely ruler flat down to at least 40 hz...





also, i want it too be rather tight...







the focal k2p 13 looks good, with dual 2 ohm VC's, but they are getting rather common,





any exotic crap out there that i may not know about...





please dont comment unless you have heard or used said product...





and dont just recomend the usual suspects unless you have had good amount of listening times with said sub...







one that catches my eye is the PHD subs, though there a bit girly...





thanks guys

much love

big budd



also,

please dont hesitate to recomend box size and types too...

Sorry I shouldn't be posting because I haven't heard any of these but I'll throw them out there as some others may have heard them.


Peerless XLS

Lotus SW300 (i'd want 2) said to be very acurate and probably one of the cleanest and most transparent sounding sub's on the market problem is because it is such a clean transparent sound some people say it lakes output, it doesn't it's just because it blends and integrates so well (note this is all heresay I've never heard one myself just heard some great things about it.)

original JBL GTi and the new GTiW aint to bad either

Some of the Aura sounds subs are meant to be great aswell, can be pricey though

JL 10W6V2, fits every description youve just mentioned.

people tend to write off JL without much more thought these days, and so did i until i bought one, it blew my ID MAX and every other woofer i have heard to date.. out of the water.

strong points:
very fast
perfectly precise
does what its told, be it boomy, sharp, quick hits, etc
requires a nice small box
perfect for the power you have available (recommend getting D2 for 600W)
very transparent, the highlight of my system (sadly), is that people cannot locate my sub at all, blends seamlessly with my mids, and brings the soundstage forward nicely
goes LOUD

weak points:
ive noticed a bit of group delay in fast techno, but i am running ported, never tryed sealed
not too common to find these days
plays low (tuned to 38hz), but rolls off under 30hz, heavily rolls off under 25hz, (again, never tryed a lower tuning freq, or sealed box, so i dont know how it would go.)

but it gets a very very strong recommendation from me, if you can find anyone over there running one in an sq setup, try to listen to it, it will not disappoint. but with that said, i doubt the focal would either

The new Mille 3000 or Mille 2500 would give you SQ and the desired head banging capability but alas they are simply both SVC 4 ohm only versions.

x2 to that!!

Hands down

Rainbow Vanadium 12"

info in this thread http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=78166

Ant

maybe try and track down a 2nd hand 2 ohm Boston Pro?

i run a 12.5LF (4 ohm) at the moment (1000w on tap @ 4 ohm though, gottta love the Rubi 1002 ), and seems to fit your requirements quite nicely

- Stooge007 out

Girly huh??

Another to recommend is the Phase Linear Aliante. Sounds is just as good as the PHD, but handles more power. Very old though (around 7-10 years).

try track down an old Xtant sub?

i think a RE XXX should be a definite candidate to consider. I'm sorry, but i've never heard one personally, talk to the people on here who have though and i'm sure the feedback will be good.

I'll recommend Phoenix gold Titanium Elite. Might have to import one from the US, but it is a very nice sub and one of the best that I've heard.

I'm running an Adire Audio Tumult 12". Really nice solid sounding sub, I upgraded to this from a pair of Focal 27V2's. The Focal's were nice but after going to the Tumult they sounded like they dropped off at 50Hz! It model's to be -3db down at 21Hz and just sounds nice and solid adding good fill to your music. Its never really forceful though, just letting you know its there, adding to the bassline on one track or punching you in the kidney's on the next. I'm sure there are lots of other good subs out there but its another to add to your list.

I would also consider the Focal Utopia BE subs as well. They sound farking awesome and would have to be the best sounding sub I have ever heard. Lacking for output though so you might want a pair ($$$$).

Velodyne Subwoofers, they were around a few years back, the one I heard was simply stunning. The control and accuracy was awesome. I know Damon reviewed one aswell.

Or for mainstream, JL or Rainbow

Oooo, I love the Velodyne. Servo controlled Subwoofers are still considered THE most accurate units around. VERY expensive though (think twice a PHD or Focal Utopia BE), and havent seen or heard any for quite some time....

how many you heard?

velodynes are da bomb! I dont think ive ever heard any other sub that could do everything as well as the velodyne does

another vote for JL W6V2's, my bro's 12" blends quite well with his dyn fronts, even the old V1's are still a great sub. (not sure if they are even still being produced, i remember JL released a 10th yr anniversary W6V1 when the V2s came out)
or you can go Orion H2's. You can probably snap one up quite cheap now but you will need more power to keep it happy. goes quite well in terms of SQ and output.

Like mentioned above, the JL 10W6V2 sounds fantastic and is definitely worth considering. Rainbow Vanadium 12" is also a very nice sounding sub

heard the focal 33KX? I reckon they might suit your requirements. Pulse has had his longer and might be the one to really talk to..

heard the 10" at the last round of NSW CAASQ....

very very nice...

im sure mad89 can agree with me on that

any one in vic who has a Be 8 i could hear???


and any others who are runing nice sq subs that i could listen too???


also, where would one get a phase linear aliante???


thanks guys good responces....

do all the mentioned subs come in D2???

Phase Linear aren't as good as they used to be.

If you come to the next dB drag, you can hear a pair of peerless XXLS

You know how the Focal sounds.

ill end up with a focal Be 8...

i love the k2p though, yours and rams blew me away,

i didnt even know yours was on...

how does it go for group delay though???


im seriously considering a tumult...

what means group delay?

lol

1k is a fine budget, and you should have no trouble finding something that will sound very good. How much power is going to your front stage? You may find that even at 4ohm the power is enough - depending on how far you are swaying towards SQ.

For pure SQ, I've found 150w - 200w is plenty if the sub is fairly efficient..



IMO any truly good SQ sub should do all of this. An accurate sub will be accurate no matter what you throw at it, and playing down to 40hz shouldn't be a problem for any good SQ sub. That said, getting it ruler flat will be in the enclosure and tuning, not in the sub. No matter how good a sub is, wacking it in a random sized enclosure will unlikely give a ruler flat response. If you wan't completely flat, you'll need to get someone to properly measure out your car with an RTA and custom build an enclosure to suit - and then you'll also need a good sub as well





Shouldn't be a problem if it's a good sub, and the enclosure is right.



I heard one briefly in Marty's car, and it's a nice sounding sub. Others I've been impressed by most have been a Phoenix Gold Ti 12 Elite, Rainbow Vanadium, and the new flagship Hertz sub.

Edit:

Whhops, but late.. just saw that you decided to go with the Focal 8" (13WX possibly?). They are far from the most sensitive subs around, and taking that into consideration the power handling is naturally not exceptional and likewise cone area - so don't expect too much output from a single one. Depth may also be an issue, although with a suitable vented box, it may be fine. All those issues aside, I've no doubts it should sound outstanding and it was actually one of the options I considered myself before I decided to go with the Rainbow.

all the best with it

Are u saying they are a old sub or old design, because these are still avaliable new today? And you know what they say, if it aint broke dont fix it



Aliantes also fit in quite a small box,27 ltrs for the 12 i think is what works best.22 for the 10

Old design. Sure, its probably the best design for a subwoofer, like EVER, but the competition has had almost a decade to try and catch up. I can understand the desire to buy one back then, but these days, there are so many others that almost sit at that same level of control and accuracy....

i meant does the focal keep up with trance beats simon???


and where would one purchase a phase audio aliante from???

the focal is good and fast. there is no appreciable group delay in my system.

none in mine either.. altho i've got the v2 compared to the KX..

your more than welcome to listen to mine as well charlie..

thanks damo,

but if i cant find an aliante, ill get the kx, as i love it...


i only want the aliante to try something different..

anyone know where i could purchase one???

I think this is the last time any were for sale on the forums:
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...showtopic=62761

You could try contacting some of those guys (although the original seller hasnt been on CAA since Oct 06) if you didnt mind a second-hand 1/2?

Other than that, do they even have an Australian distributer/importer?

i really want one, they just look so cool..

Do they run a flat 'cone?'

Flat cone's aren't as efficient as parabolic cones - less air is moved.

pardon?

I think what you mean is that they are less efficient due to dispersion from the edge of the diaphragm.

It's still the same piston area, just the flat part "leaks" more at the edges in an acoustic sense. This would make baffle step distortion higher, and higher frequencies sound a little 'thinner'. Overall sensitivity would be lower, allowing an extended low frequency roll-off... but you'd have to be a bit more careful of the enclosure design.

I didnt hear you complaining when listening to my PHD's.... cause they are based on the exact same design for the cone (flat piston). Only the motor is different.

And they have lower sensitivity then their comparable cone counterpart, but most pistons tend to have very high sensitivity when compared to other motor structures. For example, the PHD is a 96dB 1/1. I think the Aliante is around 88dB from memory.

In terms of pure sound, they do sound slightly different. Its a sound that personally, I absolutely adore. Added to that they are VERY accurate for a non-servo motor, its a bit of spice for every taste.

Here is the website too
http://www.phase-linear.de/produkte.asp?p=...=44&lang=EN

Phase Aliante is very popular in my country where SQ is concern. All of the people who have heard the sub noted the lack of output, even for dual setup, so be careful what u aim for.

i may have to go with a kx 15 then....

why not the 46KX4... and really do it

i would consider keeping my phd, and using the focal 18,

could someone model it for me??

ported or sealed???

and would it be as fast as the twelve???

i dont ask cos its an 18, im asking cos i know its got to do with inductance...


i would seriously consider this with my phd 5000 though, as long as it is accurate...

i reckon it would be hell loud, and sound better than my 9915...

what would be the main difference between the 12 and the 18??

only problem being is that the 15 wants a ported box, a big one, i may have to get the 12 for the sake of my boot...

i just found the answer...

critical mass UL12,,,

forgot all about this....

The Price is definately up there as well...

Get one and tell us how it perform, if you don't like it, a lot of people will be willing to unload it of you for half the price

wow good thread, specially apreciate the pieces on inductance and piston area, good work charlie and simon.

critical mass, you would be the first in aus that i know off. It certainly has the hype behind it......

just from reading some previous post of yours charlie perhaps look at a sub that uses a xbl2 motor. Bramah ..........

mmmmm, has neone heard the new adire's? r they even in the country yet?

Brahma is good, my friend has the mk2. Very transparent but a little bit 'fat' sounding.

I've read some other opinions on the UL12 although a great sub, the opinion was that there are sub $500 USD subs that can outperform it for its $2000USD price tag.

If you want I'll direct you to the site and post where I've seen the opinions.

05 XXX is phat

good luck finding one tho....

i own the last

Direct away

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11115

post #'s 5, 6, and 9 theres not a lot but you get the idea. The whole topic is worth a read it's long but it's a decent read. Only thing is AVI the topic starter is a staunch sealed box guy, but they ended up going with a JBL Wgti 12 in a ported box and where quite impressed.