Hi ppl!!!









I'm standing ere literally with a knife in hand, ready to cut into my doors for the fittment of 2 sets of Boston Z6's, and I've gotten cold feet!!!!



I'm wondering whether I'm going to have phase cancellations with the speakers in the current setup. Each set of splits will have the same crossover freqs and TA, but the front split (as shown) will be about 10cm further away from the drivers position compared to the rear split. Would this mean that the phase of the front split with relation to the rear split, when heard from the driver's seat (stay with me ere!!) may have a phase cancellation issue in the mid range??? Or am I just being a wuss?



The main reason I'm putting both sets in the front is for SQ purposes. I want to have the same amplitude of sound I have now in the front stage, but I wanna bring the highpass freq down for more midbass without stressing the mids (and making the mid freqs muddy) at higher sound levels... I've already got over 300 watts into each side with the current setup of one set of splits in the doors, but the Z's sound a little flustered with heavy bass at full throttle with any crossover setting under a 100Hz highpass (12dB). With 2 sets in the doors, I hope to set the highpass at 70Hz (12dB), and give em both 300 watts each speaker on tap, but gain reduced to a lower level, which should blend perfectly with the sub setup I have.



Is this going to be bringing more problems to my front soundstage than its worth?

Should not be a problem.



The advantage of arrays are many, however normally you wish to achieve a better horizontal dispersion, at the sacrifice of some vertical dispersion. In this case you will create the opposite. A driver cone/dome is a set of "points" each producing a the "sum" of the frequency. In this situation you have effectively one driver, with a cone elongation on the horizontal. It should produce very good result.



Nice to see someone understands you cant produce 125 dB at 100 Hz on a 6 1/2 driver anything less than 10 mm xmax.





Make sure you bolt them down to something solid, they are more than capable of shaking the door.

OOOOooooooh yeah! 600 WRMS per side will see a little bit of resonance me thinks... I'm wandering through the forum trying to find out how others have secured the door card (and speaker pods) after glassing the splits in.... I don't think I'd get away with just letting the pods sit on the door trim. I'm gonna have to secure the pods pretty well against the door frame, in a way that will enable future acess if needed, but the most important part will be making it look as stock as I can (to deter thieves), and be able to take the splits out for my next car (when the time comes).



Thanks for your support abmolech, but I have done a "sissy" and I just came back from the wreckers with a pair of door trims to use and abuse (cost me $60) without the fear of stuffing it up. ... I love magnas, because there are always heaps of good ones at the wreckers for trims n stuff... I'd hate to be cutting into a Merc or something....

Only



It is difficult for some to comprehend, if you over excurt (xmax) a woofer, it must be clipping the transiant, no matter how much "clean" power you give them.







Welcome to the real world of car audio .

might want to also sound deaden doors. Other than that, let the butchering begin

Yeah... Plenty of sound deadening to be put in for good measure... Any tricks you guys know of would be much appreciated!!!



This is the way the door is ATM------->







Bu I'm going to put another load of Plain chant tiles around the initial pads, and also spay on some RF noise killer in a can stuff($90 a can... S # I T!!!!), then put another layer of dynamat onto the door, and then pump out the trims with a blend of expander foam, bitumen deadner and cavity reinforcement.....



When I was over in the U.S. they also showed me a couple of other little tricks to solidify the door cavity further, such as the fitment of a brace behind the speaker, right thruogh to the outer skin, which is just clear of the window when it's rolled down. Apparently it really aids in keeping the door trim from shaking with high amplitude vibes. I'll have to take photos as I go for future project inspirations....









I'm hoping that I will be able put the splits up on a slight angle towards the opposite seats headrest for a better image, but I definately want to keep the overall trim to speaker pod mount as lean as possible, so it's gonna be interesting to see how much space I'll be able to find behind the door card (without cutting any metal of course!!! )

as Monty Burns would say... "Excellent"

and Abmolech - "Excurt"????
I though it was "Excurse".. but I may be wrong

126dB is loud

110 Db is bloody loud!!!

Go for it mate, I love to see serious deadening occurring, justifies the hours I've spent.

so 2 6.5 drivers next to each other wont cause any ta/phase issues??? as i have a similar thing happening with k3ps?? sorry to hijack!

Whats your reason for running two speakers? Simply more midbass ?

Just a thought, in the Magna you can fit larger speakers. The largest you can go without cutting metal is the Moral elate 9. 8inch drivers fit no worries.

Just a thought

Yeah... I kinda wanted to keep these Z6's of mine though, and it would take a fair chunk of dosh to replace them with the same quality of something else (though some of u may argue!! ). The Z's are my fav speaker, and I want to get more midbass yes... but I also want to have a louder soundstage, without problems like compression, which is starting to become apparent when the Z's xmax is being reached, and you can hear the mid freqs staring to become muddled, from harmonic distorion, and compression of the cone at its outer limits... I heard a twin set of these in a buick in the U.S. and they were magic!!! But the setup which they had, featured the drivers in a different fashion... So I'm a bit worried it not gonna sound the same..

Fair enough mate. Would love to see some pictures of the finished product, i reken it will look sex,

have u thought about putting them both on an angle. sorta tucking the front speakers rear most side under the back speakers front most side. not actually under neath it but it would appear that way when in the drivers/passengers seat.

ill draw a paint pic...
Click to view attachment

yeah thats an artwork right there

Scary !! You've read my mind...



Progress so far,






Next..... Glassing the pods....

I can say this - you will get some phasing / cancellation with the woofers on an angle/overlapping/offset like that.

it'll be barely noticeable for the most part, but if you're anal about your SQ then flat will be better.

Anal...... It would be my second name, if my first name was "Inodoo"

The drivers will have about 10cm difference in length to the listener on the drivers side....



Factoring in that the speed of sound is about 340 meters per sec, the 10 cm diff will be cancelling freqs (180 deg diff) at about 1.7kHz... So....... thats cool!!, because the 24dB crossover's setting is at about 2kHz anyways. Added to that, I'm hoping that this will help draw the image towards the centre, due to the fact that on the passenger's side, both speakers will be relatively the same distance apart, and therefore no cancellations will occur. In (my weird logic) theory, as the freqs played become closer to the 1.7kHz mark, the left side will start to become slightly dominating in amplitude (and vice versa for the passenger side) which will help to create a better center image (I hope!!), drawing any mono freqs around 1.7k towards the center. The only problem I may face is a 1.7kHz sweep from one side to the other will sound louder on the left compared to the right (from the driver seat).



Failing that, and if it starts to have issues, I plan to set the forward splits up on a different channel to the rear set. I'll use front TA for the forward pair, and rear TA for the closer set, and go from there....



Am I making sense? Nah.... Didn't think so... Back to the funny farm for me then!!!!

makes good sense to use the TA if you need to.
the phasing will be 180 degrees out at 1.7 kHz - that's -50dB or more, and will start to come back in-phase above that.. some funny notch that will be.

on second thought's - all the TA will do is move the notch around a bit - maybe higher and out the way, but what about the tweeters - if you run passive crossovers, then the tweeters will have to be offset by the same amount.

if you run 3-ways up front, then you will avoid the problem totally though, as there won't be anything that high coming out of them anyway...

AAAAAAAAAaaaaargh!!!!



My brain is starting to hurt... I'm just gonna stuff the ba$tards in an see what happens...

Progress has been slow thus far...





I've been fixing up a Vitara at the same time as this project, and it's taking a bit longer than expected.



When we got the car, the dash looked like it had a fair bit of stuff removed and then a blanking plate was fixed to hide the massive hole they left when they sold the vehicle on to us:







I'm halfway through replacing the dash with this one ATM,



and I figure I may as well soundproof the heck out of it while it's off...



Also, there are a couple of 6*9s that have been whacked over some massive holes in the back, which will need to be fixed up at a later date....







Any ideas for these projects would be most welcome, especially the 6*9s... I am thinking of making up a pod, but it's gonna have to be quite resistant to wet weather (just in case)

Progress.....



My door has boobs!!!!

nice fabric - I prefer stripes, but camo is good.

Auscam FTW lol

lookinh hotness

Ha!! Yeah, the cam fabric was the only strechy stuff I could find in the shed at the time. It ended up working well, and I could tell easily that the fiberglass was wetting through properly...



Halfway through boging and sanding out the blemishes, and I'm thinking of embossing something into the side, like the BA logo or something







I've still got an aluminium plate CAA logo that I wanted to use on a previous install, but now the name has changed I'm at a loss as to what to do with it... I'm also thinking of putting a small sub where the CAA logo is on this pic, but I've been told that the door won't handle much more stress on it without some serious structural work done to manage the 3 driver's pumping vibes through the cavity.





I can't seem to find an 8" sub that will cope with a tiny 6-8 litre enclosure if I decide to go sealed with the door sub. I don't like the idea of the sub firing into the same cavity as the Z6's because I think the sub would pump the Z's cones a bit, and I think the door would start to have chuffing!!! Am I right in thinking that?

yes

Just a follow up on this thread.... I found no problems with adding a second woofer into the door SQ wise, except for the door rattles. I needed a liberal amount of deadening and bracing to get rid of the squeeks and chattering, but it was worth it in the end.



More info. is in my install page.

Always a good sign.

Arrays for the win.

Nice job, good to see you have the courage of your convictions.

Now let the bass wars begin. I would be very interested to hear peoples opinions, once they have heard this setup, versus a single 6.5 " mid woofer.

Big thanks for updating the thread.

Thanks for your support abmolech! you's a champ. I highly recommend 2 sets for SQL!



With my single setup, I could get it quite loud, and it seemed clear and crisp at the time. It was however, a constant comprimise to either have a lower crossover setting and have it stage well, or have to set the crossovers to a higher (high pass) setting to keep the mid freqs from blurring from harmonic distortion when I wanted to crank the $**t out of a good bass track, and wanted the mids to keep up with the subs.



With the 2 mids on each side, you can have the best of both worlds.SQ, and SPL. Having 2 mids "pumping it out large" gives a new appreciation of what loud AND clear should really sound like!!! .



I still haven't found the terminal setting yet (where you finally reach the sonic limits of the setup), so I'm happy! Maybe it's just me but I'm sure it stages even better with the 2 sets, but this seems illogical. Meh... The less logic I look for in things, the happier I seem to be



This is what the splits look like ATM (if ya too lazy to visit me installs page!!)