Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 3Sixty.2 Time Alignment
Mobile Electronics Australia > Mobile Electronics Discussion > Tutorials & Technical Article Discussion
Gonadman2
I wasn't too sure where to post this but this seemed the logical section.

With the 3Sixty gathering a little bit of popularity lately, I thought I would post up this little bit of info about the time alignment. When I was in Perth last, a few of us had a fair go at the TIme Alignment with the 3Sixty- measuring distances and whatnot but seemingly unable to achieve a truely great soundstage. It was good, but not great.

It seem's that there is more to it, than measuring the distances and plugging in the values for each driver. The following is reproduced from the RF Knowledge Base.
QUOTE
The human ear uses several methods to determine the location of sound, one of which is the difference in time from when the sound reaches the left ear compared to the right. In order for a sound to be perceived as being directly in front of the listener, the sound must arrive at each ear at the same time.

In a car, the listener is usually closer to an individual speaker. The sound from this speaker arrives at the listener earlier than the sound from the further speaker. This is perceived as the sound originating from the closer speaker. 3Sixty allows you to delay the speakers that are close to you such that all audio arrives at the listener at the same time. The below diagram illustrates how typical Kick Panel, Dash Location and Door Location installations vary speaker path lengths.




Let's look at a simple 2-speaker installation in the Door Location. The LEFT speaker 20" away from your ears and the RIGHT speaker 44" away. In an ideal world, both speakers would be the exact distance from you, therefore the sound they produce arrive at your ears at the SAME TIME. Since it is impossible to speed up the sound originating from your speakers, you have to work with the one that is furthest away as a reference (in our example, it will take the RIGHT speaker longer for its sound to reach your ear.)

So we have decided that the RIGHT speaker (at 44") is your reference. Regardless if the 3Sixty indicates "distance" or "time" is irrelevant. We said earlier that you want both speakers to be the same distance from you. This means the LEFT speaker needs to be extended 24" (44" - 20" = 24") or 2 feet. Now both LEFT and RIGHT speakers appear to be 44” away. This is a good start, but ultimately it is personal preference. You may find that you have to delay the LEFT speaker by 2'4". The procedure outlined above is simply a starting point.
Gonadman2
There is no reference in the 3Sixty manual as to how you determine correct TA 'distances.' I found this on the knowledge base - the last paragraph explains it beautifully - and I though that other users might find it useful.

If you input the 'actual' distances you will still arrive at a soundstage, although its not correct. The 3Sixty.2 only determines the 'difference' between the reference speaker (furthest from the desired seating position) and the speaker being set. Therefore, one speaker will have a TA setting of 0'0" and the rest having values greater than it - although there is only 5 feet of TA.
fnlow
Does this mean that essentially you subtract the distance of the speaker closest to the listener from the other speaker(s) distances, and use these results as the values to input?
Thats the way I understand it smile.gif
~thematt~
That is interesting. Your RF was pissing me off considerably when we played with it last time.

Strange way to do it, but logical .....
Gonadman2
It is a strange way to do it, but I suppose it makes sense.



I quickly chucked some values in this arvo, and the image is more defined than before but still lower than yours Matt.

QUOTE (fnlow @ May 14 2007, 05:20 PM) *
Does this mean that essentially you subtract the distance of the speaker closest to the listener from the other speaker(s) distances, and use these results as the values to input?
Thats the way I understand it smile.gif




Kind of, but the other way around. So in my car ( I use inches because the 3Sixty is Ft and In):



Right Tweeter 30in

Right Mid 32in

Left Tweeter 49in

Left Mid 51in



Therefore the furthest driver in my front stage is the Left mid, so I use the following formula to generate the TA values to input into the 3Sixty:



Right Tweeter 51in(furthest driver) - 30in = 1ft 9in

Right Mid 51in - 32in = 1ft 7in

Left Tweeter 51in - 49in = 2in

Left Mid = 0in



Geddit?
muzzy66
Makes perfect sense to me, and is similar to the approach I take with my HXD2.

You want all speakers to be 'theoretically' the same distance away (i.e. signal reaches your ear at the same time).

If you measure the distances and just punch them in, then you will end up adding more time alignment onto the speaker that is already furthest away..

For exampls, lets say left speaker is 1.5m away and right speaker is 1m away.

If you just punch in the distances then you will punch in 1.5m for the left speaker and 1m for the right one. This then delays the signals so that the left speaker is essentially 3m away, and the right speaker 2m away - actually making the image worse.

I made the exact same mistake initially with my head unit, so it's easy to mess up if you dont take a step back and look at it from a theoretical point of view for a little bit smile.gif
Pulse-R
It's exactly the same way the Pioneer does it. measure them all, find the furthest one, then add the necessary delay to make them all the same...
~thematt~
??? With my Pioneer, you just put in your distances....
fnlow
Hmm might go read my instruction book aagain me thinks. Makes sense now you say it- but I suppose it really depends which way your time alignment processes the info you give (ie the way in which different brands/ models work). smile.gif
Thanks for clearing that up Gonad man.
Poisoner
ok so this has no effect on me as i use Alpine. but from my understanding. rather than the distance from you u dial in the distance in relation to the furthest speaker? im confused
Pulse-R
pioneer? I meant alpine... ahhahaha

I get so confused with all these different brands.
The best way I find is just tweak the dial until it sounds right..
trism
x2...

i tried the distances, and it failed... sounded worse...

so i put it onto milliseconds, and turned the knob till it sounded good
Crusader
I plugged my guitar into the Aux line
Pulse-R
QUOTE (Powervan @ May 17 2007, 09:37 PM) *
I plugged my guitar into the Aux line


how'd that go?
Gonadman2
QUOTE (Powervan @ May 17 2007, 10:37 PM) *
I plugged my guitar into the Aux line




Into a 3Sixty?
Wisdom
nice tut btw smile.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.