hey guys,

i have been looking around different forums a while and found this one to be the best suited for the questions i need to ask.

firstly, i know little about car electronics and this is the reason i need help from those on this forum who, from what i have seen, are quite skilled at fabrication and know what they are doing. i belive i am strong in the ideas, designs and fabrication but i need help as when it comes to mixing custom parts and cars im a litle lost.

ok on to the question, i have a holden stationwagon and want to do some custom mods. im looking to-

- create a car pc (most likely with touch screen) to store allmy dvds and music i wish to play. mounting the screen is still an issue as i dont know here it is i want it to go. im possibly looking at a small form factor pc mounted in the centre compartment between the two front seats.

- im looking at custom mounting a screen in the headrest of the two front seats for the people in the rear to view. im looking at a master and slave dual screen system. reason being is i can hook up the touchscreen to the pc and dual screen with the master screen and its slave. therefore creating 3 screens wired up to the computer for dvd watching.

-possibly mounting an xbox in the car under a seat, by utilising a switcher i can switch the screens between the computer and xbox (these can be bought from a gaming store). by using wireless controllers 3 people should be able to play. now my xbx is set up as a media centre. would it be easier to just mount the xbox to play the part of a gaming machine as well as a media centre pc?

- custom mounting a speaker setup in the back of the stationwagon with a speaker under one or two of the seats. it will not be a car speaker system and will be wired straight into h xbox or pc.

i have taken some inspiration in terms of out there projects from the mtv show pimp my ride. im looking to complete the project over a total of 1 yr. now my main issue is will there be enough power for

-speakers (home theatre setup)
-3 screens
-computer and/or xbox

by this i mean running the power through a converter via the lighter socket. is there another way? im trying to think as simple as possible so i needs to tear the car down as little as possible as that isnt a strong suit.

PLEASE - put me back in my place if my idea is quite frankly impossible. i like to think it is doable but if there are limiting factors any help would be awesome. maybe links to sites that could help would be nice....

cheers guys hope to hear some responses.

sounds like everything is doable.

will be a big job though.

the speakers will need some form of amplification, and will probly not be able to be run straight from the xbox or carpc though.

a car battery + alternator should supply plenty of power

- Stooge007 out

"the speakers will need some form of amplification, and will probly not be able to be run straight from the xbox or carpc though."

so ill need an amp for the speaker setup. what do you mean they wont run directly from the xbox/pc?

any ideas about whether it should be an xbox and pc or xbox or pc?

cheers guys

edit - would this sort of thing pass rego?

for the power supply, you will need to add up the expected/possible power consumption of all the relevant components: PC, xbox, other.

for example, the xbox may require up to 200W. not sure what the PC would need, but your internal PC power supply will guide you. say you need 400W total, then you can work from there. you might use a 500W power converter or similar. the specs of the inverter should tell you how much current it can draw, and what size fuse it needs, and therefore what gauge powerwire you should be supplying it with. for example, a jaycar 400W inverter has a 50A fuse; so you could use 8awg powerwire to feed it (8awg is rated to ~80A).

as such, you would NOT use the cig lighter socket/wiring, because it will not supply the required juice (ie: might supply up to 20A, but no more; can check its fuse in the car's fusebox).

so, with any such setup, i would recommend:

*running suitable-gauge powerwire from battery into the cabin/boot; use suitable fuse near battery
*terminate wire in a suitable distribution block (these are usually a gold-plated brass block with holes/grubscrews to cater for different gauge wires)
*from the DB, you would run powerwire to the amplifier for the speakers, and can run powerwiring to the inverter; each component can be grounded directly to the chassis near where it is mounted (not returning to the battery or to a 'common' distro block (common = single distro block where all groundwires return))

yes, you will need an amplifier. any speaker/sub needs to be powered by an amp. a headunit can run 4 speakers reasonably well; an xbox or PC does not have an inbuilt amplifier to suit. an external amp will run speakers much better than the HU; more grunt and clarity.

for 5.1 DD (dolby digital) you would need 6 channels (at least). if you have the money, i'd recommend at least 2 separate amps, maybe 3:
*4-channel amp to run fronts and rears; 40~60WRMS per channel is usually quite enough
*2-channel amp to run front centre channel; doesn't strictly need to be a 2-channel (could be a 1-channel fullrange monobloc), but a 2-channel is usually cheaper
*1-channel monobloc to run sub: 200~400WRMS is usually enough

for such a setup, you could spend 'as little as' $700~800, and go upwards from there. for very good quality gear, you could easily spend $2~3K on amps alone. whilst you can spend less, you won't get as good quality gear, so would compromise in areas of power output, sound quality, and/or build quality.

ah k, i sort of get it. havent had much experience with car systems so it is a bit confusing. is there a diagram o represent it easier? just where the wires would go in terms of earthing, speakers, amps, power supply, etc

edit - im currently looking through tutorials and there is some good stuff in there but cant find a diagram yet. however the tutorial section has answered many question.

Just to make things a tad more confusing for you....I would stay away from invertors to run your XBOX/PC. As much as I hate to disagree with shiny, invertors have their flaws. The are often highly inefficient and often induce noise into your audio.

I am putting an XBOX in my car at the moment and there is another way to power them. Running a simple 12 V PSU will plug straight into your electric wiring but needs a bit of hacking at the XBOX end. What i mean is, the PSU does not fit straight into the XBOX, and needs a bit of modding. You should understand that if you decide to go the PSU way rather than an invertor your XBOX warrenty will be void.

The way i am running my system is this....

XBOX RCA outputs (red, white, yellow) to a 3.5mm convertor (had at jaycar) which plugs into the Aux port on my H/U. That covers the audio, so that when AUX on the H/U is selected, sound from the XBOX will run through the whole sound system.

The power wire for the XBOX runs directly from the battery and provides the 100W of power the XBOX needs...

The video outputs simply go to your video setup whatever that may be.

Just an idea to think about....If you need some detailed help, PM me

As stooge said, everything is do-able but needs to be tought out pretty throughly...

-Eric

expect a pm soon. im writing it up now. yea dont worry about the whole warranty void thing. you see in order to install a chip....... well you get the picture. i have a larger (160gig) HD in it for larger storage.

there will be more in the pm.

in terms of it being road legal.....is there anything that prohibits the driver from viewing a screen whilst driving or are there any risks that my ideas may prohibit it from being legal?

cheers

The screen for the driver is getting to be a bit of a grey area I think - it depends whats on the screen. Generally speaking, DVD players are supposed to be wired to the handbrake so you can only watch when the car is stationary. These days though, you have people driving around withbig sat nav devices attached to their windscreen, which seems just as bad if not worse to me anyway.

i do agree there about the GPS, although they do "speak" to you so i spose people get away with it. it will most likely be an 8" touchscreen but where its to be mounted i havent decided, i might put it in the dash in the middle.

for now im putting out ideas and requesting help to refine them to a doable project. btw guys two thumbs up for the help you have all given, tops forum so keep it up.

what are these different operating systems people are running for in the car? i noticed they dont just open to a screen that you would see at home on a normal desktop. can anyone explain? ill be running a micro atx computer so can this OS be run on it or do i need a special car comp?

cheers

Maybe this could get moved to the CarPC section to get more specific advice?

sounds good to me. you have more experience with this sort of things than me.

yes, i think i'll move it to the CarPC subforum.

you dont necessarly need to have an amp. If your HU has an Auxilery port use it


although amps do make things louder

G'day champ, just got home from work...excause the spelling, it's bloody late and I start work early lol

As always I tend to make things worse when i try to explain so I drew up a little paint sketch for you. ...



The above picture shows my setup. I am only running an XBOX (no PC) and I only have one moniter for display so yours could be a bit differnt- same principals however.

Powering the XBOX
The first thing to think about is how to power the box.The XBOX is rated at 100W....you may get it going on a bit less, but to be safe go for 100W. There are essentially two ways to power an XBOX off 12 volts.

Invertor- Invertors are avialable at most electircal shops (jaycar, dick smith, tandy etc) and are essentially 'plug and play'. As I said in the other post, they are inneficient, and often cuase electromagnetic interference with your audio. On the plus side, they are easy to install easy to disconnect...easy in every way possible really

12V PSU- By replacing the 240V XBOX PSU with a 12V replacement, your XBOX can essentially plug straight into your cars electrical wiring as long as that particular wire can provide 100W at all times (P=I*V, where I=amps,V=voltage). The PSU is the smarter option for a permentent option. There is no energy loss, except for the ineffeciency of the actual XBOX itself, and there is no electromagentic interferece Obviously after you replace the PSU you will no longer be able to use it in the home however, which may or may not be the deciding point.

If you decide to change the PSU, I can give you some advice but remember that doing so will void your warenty.

Audio Component
There is a few ways of playing back the Audio component from the XBOX. It will depend on what hardware you get, and what your prefrences are

Headphones-I am not sure of the exact details on headphones, but i assume something aloong the lines of a processor or something similar that will send the Audio feed to the headphones. You may have to do a bit of research on that one by yourself......

Hardware playback
Alot of monitors have audio playback built in. The soundquality is ussually not all that great however and my leave some to be disired. If you wanted to do this you would need to split the audio RCA's comeing out of the XBOX into 3 or 4 sets (one set for each monitor)....

Aux In
This is the way I runing things. The XBOX audio RCA's are split into a 3.5mm Jack which goes straight into the H/U. When the H/U is set to Aux input the sound comes through all speakers in the car. This could be troublesome however and may not be the way you want to go. Say your on a long trip, kids want a DVD you want quite etc.....Headphones could be more the way

In any case it may not be all that easy to simply 'switch' audio feeds from XBOX to PC. There are a couple of ways you could do it however....This is what is comeing to mind at midnight anyway lol....

-You could roll with the headphone idea for the XBOX audio and the Aux in idea for the PC...
-If you decide to go with the Aux in idea, RCA switches can be had i belive which may allow you to switch the input pretty easily...diagram


Your best bet is to jus to think about where you want the Audio from both the XBOX and PC comeing from, and then you will be able to pic an appropriate method of connection.

Video Playback
I can't really provie any help with more than one monitor setups....speak to the pros on this one. I am only running a single screen, so for my it's simply plug it in and voila

Legalities
As with all mods to vehicles there are strict laws governing what you do. To be honest, I do not have any idea what these are exactly but a call to the RTA technical line will get you sorted. As far as i know, DVD playback is prohibited while in motion if it is in the drivers primary vision (which stratches greater than 180 degrees from looking straight ahead). Screens in the back is fine as far as i know

[EDIT]
I have just been thinking about things a bit more.....perhaps you could run a two stage visual setup, effectively having two channels of video rather than squeezing to inputs onto one channel. Confused? good. What I am trying to say, why not have a dedicated touchy in the centre console for the PC and run the XBOX purely as an entertainment centre for the rears. There would be no reason to put the PC display in the rear anyway right?

You could run the PC Audio straight into the headunit (so that playback of stored audio could be possible) and run the XBOX audio into headphones or alternalty straight into the display.

Anyway I am tired as crap, I hope some of it made sense.

-Eric

that was very helpful, makes it alot easier now.

was at a mates and he showed me his logitec speakers he had just picked up. nice and cheap for a 5.1 system, puts out decent sound too. bass has almost shaken the mirror loose in his bathroom.

here they are

i should be able to pick them up cheaper as i know people at jb hi fi who could bring down the price. but would it be possible to mount 2 of those setups to run from the one control panel (the one included) without losing any power? i have sketched out some more plans as for how the comp screen will be mounted, however for those who have done the mod themselves how have you gone with rego?

cheers

I don't get it? You are planning to mount computer speakers in your car?

These speakers are great for your computer, but not so great for your car.

5.1 Is not everything. In a car the effects of 5.1 will be almost muted by the stresses of driving, road noise, passenger noise etc. If this was my setup go with a conventional speaker sub setup. Yes it will cost a bit more, but will crap all over the computer speaker setup.

True in-car 5.1 can only be had by running multiple amps to cover the multiple sections of playback (front, centre, rear, sub). Amps are not all that cheap and if you decide to go for the 5.1 idea, things could rack up pretty quick. Your choice but....

-Eric

kk

could some one recommend a set up that may be better? im not looking to blow the windows off the cars bassing me but i just want some nice sound with that awesome bass feel. im on a budget but could prob go to 1000 or so, cheaper would be better though

So with the budget of 1000 dollars you want the following?

-Front drivers (6/6.5" splits)
-Centre driver (if your still looking for 5.1DD)
-Rears (any old coax)
-Sub
-amp (2 channel for front drivers)
amp(2 channel for centre driver)
amp (2 channel for rear drivers)
amp (monoblock for sub)
-Headunit
-Carputer
-XBOX mods (12V modification)
-Wiring
-Dynamat
-MDF
-Glue
-Carpet/vinyl/leather

That is an awful long list for 1K...imposible really.

Ditch the 5.1DD idea and things will be much cheaper however. If you want a better idea of what 'good sound' is like head out to a CAASQ event and have a listen. Most competitors do not run 5.1 yet still manage to sound insanely awesome.

You may need to stretch the budget a tad to get all things running......Heres what i would be looking towards

-headunit (above entry level, $300-450)
-Front drivers (again, above entry level $400-500)
-Rears (run stockies $FREE$)
-Sub (a nice responsive 12inch, $300-400
Amp (1 x 2channel for fronts, $300-400
Monoblock (for sub, $300-400
Total for your main components =$2150ish

You will then need to factor in....
XBOX install (PSU or invertor, $100)
Wiring ($200)
Dynamat ($250)
MDF, Vinyl, glue, tape, misc ($100)
Rough grand total assuming DIY install = $2800

This would give you a kick ass stereo system if installed right! If you keen head out to your pro dealers such as cartunez, nothfeild marooka, FHRX (depending on location) and the can give you more help.

If 1K really is your limit, then you better start scanning the 'for sale' topics looking for second hand gear. The problem with buying secondhand is that everything is not available when you want them. Cheap setups can be had (ask team budget ) but it will take many months to get 'noise' in your car.

Anyway, I am a tad confused now as to what you really want/ what you already have. Give us a list on what you need and someone will be able to give you some component specific adivice....

-Eric

basically i only have the stock setup in a holend commodore station wagon, and am looking for a better setup than what ive already got (not hard) but didnt want to blow tonnes on a pro setup, just something that sounds good with decent bass.